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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does ALL mean ALL?

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tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
Actually, this only bolsters what I said earlier.
The angels were correct, they did bring good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. Whether or not the pharisees or evil doers accepted it as good news did not change the fact that it was good news... and was intended for all people.



Shall is not conditional. It means it will be. This is not about whether they accept it or not. It IS good news…for those to whom He is speaking. It was not good news to some.

What you are saying only fits if you substitute the word could in place of shall.

Just a different view...

As for bolstering your position… I find it amazing how after you are set in your way…everything SEEMS to bolster your position…somehow. :-)


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TJ

 2008/2/21 15:31Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
I wouldn’t dream of it. I might hurt the rock!

nice! that's pretty funny.

phil

 2008/2/21 15:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I wouldn’t dream of it. I might hurt the rock!



Have you been talking to my wife? This sounds like something she would say! :-?

Quote:
Shall is not conditional. It means it will be. This is not about whether they accept it or not. It IS good news…for those to whom He is speaking. It was not good news to some.



This passage that you are trying to proove that "all" doesnt mean "all" just doesnt work for you. Anyone who reads that passage without trying to fit some preconceived notion into it... just reads it at face value in the context of scripture as a whole... knows exactly what that verse means. It is good news and shall be onto all people. It doesnt mean all will accept it. It means for everyone. Good news is good news whether you think it is or not.

This is what I mean when I say semantics games have to be used to make Calvinism work. We read it, and we instinctively know what it means. But here comes the Calvinist to explain to us that no, it doesnt mean what it says... it means something else.

The God I serve doesnt go out of His way to complicate things for us. Some things are beyong our understanding, obviously, but He did not give us His Word in cryptic messages that we need a Calvinist decoder ring in order to understand.

Krispy

 2008/2/21 15:57
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
I wouldn’t dream of it. I might hurt the rock!



Have you been talking to my wife? This sounds like something she would say! :-?

Quote:
Shall is not conditional. It means it will be. This is not about whether they accept it or not. It IS good news…for those to whom He is speaking. It was not good news to some.



This passage that you are trying to proove that "all" doesnt mean "all" just doesnt work for you. Anyone who reads that passage without trying to fit some preconceived notion into it... just reads it at face value in the context of scripture as a whole... knows exactly what that verse means. It is good news and shall be onto all people. It doesnt mean all will accept it. It means for everyone. Good news is good news whether you think it is or not.

This is what I mean when I say semantics games have to be used to make Calvinism work. We read it, and we instinctively know what it means. But here comes the Calvinist to explain to us that no, it doesnt mean what it says... it means something else.

The God I serve doesnt go out of His way to complicate things for us. Some things are beyong our understanding, obviously, but He did not give us His Word in cryptic messages that we need a Calvinist decoder ring in order to understand.

Krispy



I Disagree. I think it is logical to view it another way as well. You are right…It is good news! To me…and others who are saved. Do you think it was(is) good news for those who oppose Him? Do you think it was (is) good news to satan? Of course not! It is only good news to those that are His…ALL of those who are His.

The Bible says it will be good news for all. Yet it was not good news to everyone. It seems very logical to me that this would mean that the “all” is referring to all of His people. Meaning it will not be good news for satan’s followers, but for ALL of His people.

Not too deep or tricky at ALL.:-P

I believe Calvinism is a little deeper than this simple word play.

Once again I am not a Calvinist. I am one who desires to know God more and the study of theology helps me.


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TJ

 2008/2/21 16:24Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

but if the word ALL dont really mean ALL, are there more words that it is the same with?

how do we tell what words mean what they say and which ones dont? do we need a gnostic guru to tell us?

I mean if it says God is Holy, can we say it maybe dont mean he really is holy... or when it says he will save us from our sin, how do we know that passage really means he will save us, who can we chose and say which passages mean what they say? and which ones dont?




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CHRISTIAN

 2008/2/21 16:36Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Somethings that are so abundantly clear to some people, are not clear to others.

All is a universal term. Look it up. Holy is not. Holy means holy unless you redefine it. It is not a universal term like all is. No one is redefining the word all...just pointing out that it does not always encompass everyone.

Universal terms are used all the time...well not all the time...I mean I do use other terms once and awhile...get it.

This is far different from redefining terms such as holy.







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TJ

 2008/2/21 16:53Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

My nephew was eating a cheeseburger the other day and I commented on how he must really love them. He said he eats them all the time.

The truth is…he sleeps some time. Therefore he could not eat them all of the time. His use of the word ALL could not possibly mean every minute of everyday.

I am not a Calvinist, but I clearly see what is being said about universal terms. They are not redefining words…just showing how certain words can be and are commonly used in different ways. All does not always mean all.

I have heard ministers say things like, ”Everybody’s done that before”, when there are people on the earth who have not done it. Do you call them liars, or accept their use of a universal term?

I hope this sheds some light on what I believe many Calvinists are saying about universal terms.

Just my 2 cents


_________________
TJ

 2008/2/21 17:16Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

the question i have is this. did judgement come to all men because of adam? was it all men or just all kinds of men? we will all probably say "yes, to all men". then the verse says even so because of His righteous act, the free gift came to all men

brother tj, can you please answer the question. did adam's trespass or offense mean judgement for ALL MEN (everyone ever born)or ALL KINDS OF MEN (with some men not affected)? i've posted this twice and it's not been addressed, so i am asking you what you think this verse is saying. did adam's offense affect all men or just all kinds of men?

just asking brother:-D
phil

 2008/2/21 17:41Profile
mission101
Member



Joined: 2007/8/23
Posts: 9
Wellman, Iowa

 Re:

I think that ALL means ALL in most situations dicussed in the bible. If it didn't then why do we in missions take the great commission seriously when Jesus said that we must teach All nations and preach unto All peoples??

The verse mentioned earlier in Luke about All the world isn't it commonly accepted that it was All the known world?

I believe that Jesus wanted to see people from every kindred, tongue, tribe, and nation to glorify him.


_________________
Seth Kauffman

 2008/2/21 17:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
This is what I mean when I say semantics games have to be used to make Calvinism work. We read it, and we instinctively know what it means. But here comes the Calvinist to explain to us that no, it doesn't mean what it says... it means something else.

It's just not a Calvy thing, we do it [b]all[/b] (:-P) the time. We turn to the greek to get a better understanding of words being used. I have heard preachers, and lay folk alike say, "This is what it says in the original greek, it should've been translated this way". And the preacher that I am quoting from is an Arminianest. But I have seen many people do that on this site, and in online ministries and on tv, and radio.

 2008/2/21 18:48





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