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 Re: counsel needed about meeting with my pastor

Maybe God is calling YOU to preach. If you have a better way of presenting the gospel than maybe you need to start another church somewhere before you hurt this mans ministry or him.

 2008/2/20 12:26
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

chiefosiners wrote:

Quote:
Maybe God is calling YOU to preach. If you have a better way of presenting the gospel than maybe you need to start another church somewhere before you hurt this mans ministry or him




:-(


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/20 12:45Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

chiefosiners wrote:
Maybe God is calling YOU to preach. If you have a better way of presenting the gospel than maybe you need to start another church somewhere before you hurt this mans ministry or him.



This is nonsense. Maybe you should consider more what you say before you hurt someone that is just genuinely concerned.

I know I'm being blunt but why would you even respond like this?


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2008/2/20 12:52Profile









 Re:

I agree with Preach... very poor advice. It's that kind of attitude that turned me off from the traditional churches. "Dont agree w/ the pastor? Leave!"

This is not the example Paul set for us. He commended those who study the scriptures to see if what they were being taught is the truth. And the implication is that when they heard something that didnt seem to line up with scripture... they didnt just leave... they challenged the preacher. Not to be "show-offs", but for the welfare and growth of the church AND the preacher.

Preachers who consider themselves above being challenged have a name: [b]tyrants[/b].

Fortunately, the preacher in question on this thread does not seem to be a tyrant.

The advice you put forth here, cheifofsiners, is not Biblical or godly.

Krispy

 2008/2/20 13:04
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

If the church is to really be a community like setting you are going to have discussions like this. If the pastor can preach a challenging message to the congregation, what is wrong with someone challenging the pastor in private? I'm not referring to nit-piking or anything like that. If a preacher stood and said, "You need to make sure you are presenting the Gospel clearly to those who you share the truth with." No one would question it, but if someone went to the pastor and said (in love), "Brother I want to exhort you to make sure you are presenting the whole council of God to your congregation" some think it's rebellion against "authority."

Iron sharpens iron. Pastors don't come out of the womb sharp as a knife while everyone else needs work. If there is a relationship of trust and love between the pastor and another leader (which seems to be the case here) the response is going to be just like it was here. That is, things were brought up that should be considered, praying together, and fellowship. I think it's great. Isn't this what the church is suppose to do?

Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; [b]but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.[/b]


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2008/2/20 13:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I agree with Preach... very poor advice. It's that kind of attitude that turned me off from the traditional churches. "Dont agree w/ the pastor? Leave!"

This is not the example Paul set for us. He commended those who study the scriptures to see if what they were being taught is the truth. And the implication is that when they heard something that didnt seem to line up with scripture... they didnt just leave... they challenged the preacher. Not to be "show-offs", but for the welfare and growth of the church AND the preacher.

Preachers who consider themselves above being challenged have a name: [b]tyrants[/b].

Fortunately, the preacher in question on this thread does not seem to be a tyrant.

The advice you put forth here, cheifofsiners, is not Biblical or godly.

Krispy



Look, I'm just as concerned as the next person about how the gospel is presented, but I've seen it happen too many times. Someone, (usually someone in leadership) gets the idea that the preacher is not doing a good enough job and before you know it theres caos in the church. Everyone is trying to lead, none has any confidence in the preacher anymore because someone who had a better idea about how it should be done started to question the pastor and his authority. If God is done with him than he'll be gone soon enough, if not than it's time to go down the road somewhere.

What pastors need is encouragement. If he's a worship leader than his influence in the church is pretty great. If I were to go to my preacher and tell him I did'nt think he was doing it right he would be so hurt. If he's preaching heresy and trying to flease the flock than that's a different story. If he's genuinely doing the best he can than let God work in him, have confidence in the man of God.

I may have been a little too harsh and if I was than I do apologize, it just bothers me when I see this kind of thing.

Listen, God uses the weak and beggarly elements of the world to confound the wise. You never know who might need the very message he is preaching. Just because he's not presenting Christ the way you might think he should does'nt mean someone else is not hearing that message.

How many church splits started just like this? It would probably blow our mind if we knew.

As for me i'm all about supporting the pastor through whatever storm he might be going through and encouraging him rather than questioning his ability. Even if he were to miss the mark completely, I would really pray hard before I ever went to him about my own perspective. That could be a devistating blow to a pastor, you don't know, he might be on the verge of throwing his hands up and quiting.

 2008/2/20 13:31









 Re: counsel needed about meeting with my pastor


Hi chief,

You recommended

Quote:
I would really pray hard before I ever went to him

This is how the thread started:

BenK said
Quote:
I have been praying and thinking about some things for quite awhile now

Seems to me he ticked that box okay.

 2008/2/20 13:37









 Re:

Quote:
Look, I'm just as concerned as the next person about how the gospel is presented, but I've seen it happen too many times. Someone, (usually someone in leadership) gets the idea that the preacher is not doing a good enough job and before you know it theres caos in the church. Everyone is trying to lead, none has any confidence in the preacher anymore because someone who had a better idea about how it should be done started to question the pastor and his authority. If God is done with him than he'll be gone soon enough, if not than it's time to go down the road somewhere.

What pastors need is encouragement. If he's a worship leader than his influence in the church is pretty great. If I were to go to my preacher and tell him I did'nt think he was doing it right he would be so hurt. If he's preaching heresy and trying to flease the flock than that's a different story. If he's genuinely doing the best he can than let God work in him, have confidence in the man of God.

I may have been a little too harsh and if I was than I do apologize, it just bothers me when I see this kind of thing.

Listen, God uses the weak and beggarly elements of the world to confound the wise. You never know who might need the very message he is preaching. Just because he's not presenting Christ the way you might think he should does'nt mean someone else is not hearing that message.

How many church splits started just like this? It would probably blow our mind if we knew.

As for me i'm all about supporting the pastor through whatever storm he might be going through and encouraging him rather than questioning his ability. Even if he were to miss the mark completely, I would really pray hard before I ever went to him about my own perspective. That could be a devistating blow to a pastor, you don't know, he might be on the verge of throwing his hands up and quiting.



This is a lot of huff and puff over nothing because what you're describing here has nothing at all to do with anything that has been said in this thread!

A brother came on here to ask us how we would handle this situation. I think he handled it Biblically and maturely. He didnt go public with his concerns, he didnt drag the pastor's name thru the mud, he didnt turn anyone against the pastor. He met privately [b]just as scripture[/b] as told us to.

And the end result? A productive conversation... a pastor who is willing to listen and consider what this brother has to say... and promise to meet again to further discuss the issues.

What in the world more could we ask for? I think it's wonderful. It blows my mind how you can possibly think it isnt!

So then you post this 6 paragraph diatribe about "pastor bashing" that is totally unrelated to what we're talking about here.

I would recommend you re-read the entire thread one more time... and slower. You've obviously missed something.

Am I saying everything you wrote is wrong? No, not saying that at all... just saying it is totally and completely irrelevant to THIS conversation.

Quote:
As for me i'm all about supporting the pastor through whatever storm he might be going through and encouraging him rather than questioning his ability.



First off, I never felt that this brother was questioning his pastors ability. Secondly, we should support the pastor. But maybe you need to consider that part of supporting the pastor is speaking the truth to him when he needs to hear it. Challenging is not MEAN... it's LOVING. It is for our growth. I'm not being mean when I challenge one of my kids, am I? No! I'm helping them to grow. It's not comfortable when it's happening, but if its done out of love and concern, the end result is beautiful.

Unfortunately, everything cant be flowers and pastel colors. Relationships are hard. Growing is hard. And one thing that is NOT healthy for the church is a lot of fluff... and a lot of turning a blind eye to things that need to be addressed. THAT, my friend, is more detrimental the health of the church than any of the things which you listed.

Krispy

 2008/2/20 13:48
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


chiefosiners wrote:

Quote:
I may have been a little too harsh and if I was than I do apologize




Your forgiven :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/20 17:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Look, I'm just as concerned as the next person about how the gospel is presented, but I've seen it happen too many times. Someone, (usually someone in leadership) gets the idea that the preacher is not doing a good enough job and before you know it theres caos in the church. Everyone is trying to lead, none has any confidence in the preacher anymore because someone who had a better idea about how it should be done started to question the pastor and his authority. If God is done with him than he'll be gone soon enough, if not than it's time to go down the road somewhere.

What pastors need is encouragement. If he's a worship leader than his influence in the church is pretty great. If I were to go to my preacher and tell him I did'nt think he was doing it right he would be so hurt. If he's preaching heresy and trying to flease the flock than that's a different story. If he's genuinely doing the best he can than let God work in him, have confidence in the man of God.

I may have been a little too harsh and if I was than I do apologize, it just bothers me when I see this kind of thing.

Listen, God uses the weak and beggarly elements of the world to confound the wise. You never know who might need the very message he is preaching. Just because he's not presenting Christ the way you might think he should does'nt mean someone else is not hearing that message.

How many church splits started just like this? It would probably blow our mind if we knew.

As for me i'm all about supporting the pastor through whatever storm he might be going through and encouraging him rather than questioning his ability. Even if he were to miss the mark completely, I would really pray hard before I ever went to him about my own perspective. That could be a devistating blow to a pastor, you don't know, he might be on the verge of throwing his hands up and quiting.



This is a lot of huff and puff over nothing because what you're describing here has nothing at all to do with anything that has been said in this thread!

A brother came on here to ask us how we would handle this situation. I think he handled it Biblically and maturely. He didnt go public with his concerns, he didnt drag the pastor's name thru the mud, he didnt turn anyone against the pastor. He met privately [b]just as scripture[/b] as told us to.

And the end result? A productive conversation... a pastor who is willing to listen and consider what this brother has to say... and promise to meet again to further discuss the issues.

What in the world more could we ask for? I think it's wonderful. It blows my mind how you can possibly think it isnt!

So then you post this 6 paragraph diatribe about "pastor bashing" that is totally unrelated to what we're talking about here.

I would recommend you re-read the entire thread one more time... and slower. You've obviously missed something.

Am I saying everything you wrote is wrong? No, not saying that at all... just saying it is totally and completely irrelevant to THIS conversation.

Quote:
As for me i'm all about supporting the pastor through whatever storm he might be going through and encouraging him rather than questioning his ability.



First off, I never felt that this brother was questioning his pastors ability. Secondly, we should support the pastor. But maybe you need to consider that part of supporting the pastor is speaking the truth to him when he needs to hear it. Challenging is not MEAN... it's LOVING. It is for our growth. I'm not being mean when I challenge one of my kids, am I? No! I'm helping them to grow. It's not comfortable when it's happening, but if its done out of love and concern, the end result is beautiful.

Unfortunately, everything cant be flowers and pastel colors. Relationships are hard. Growing is hard. And one thing that is NOT healthy for the church is a lot of fluff... and a lot of turning a blind eye to things that need to be addressed. THAT, my friend, is more detrimental the health of the church than any of the things which you listed.

Krispy



Thats the way you saw things, I saw something different, maybe I'm wrong, but maybe your wrong.
As you said sometimes when your blunt and to the point it's uncomfortable. I had a brother tell me this exact thing one time, someone that was a good friend of mine. He was our youth director at one time and then God called him to another church. I called him upset one night because I did'nt like the way this new guy taught, and he set me straight real quick. It actually made me mad at first but after I though about it, I realized he was right. The truth hurts sometimes just like you said. It's not all pastel colors and fluff.

 2008/2/20 20:56





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