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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : please im confused about baptism and feel i could go to hell

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 Re:

Quote:
Mark 16:16 is clear that one MUST believe AND BE BAPTIZED to be saved.



Only when taken out of the context of scripture as a whole... and only when you ignore the last part of that verse.

The last part of that verse says: [i]"but he that believeth not shall be damned."[/i] Notice it doesnt say "he that believeth not and/or is not baptised shall be damned.

Blazed, proof texting is a very dangerous sport. You must let scripture interpret scripture, not word search e-sword until you find a verse... you have to read each verse in the total context of scripture as a whole... all 66 books, all 31,000 plus verses. Not just one.

The verse division in scripture was a good idea 600 or 700 years ago when it was introduced. It does help us find our way around scripture a lot easier... however the danger is that we single out a verse and make it stand alone. It's like when the media interviews someone for 45 minutes and then runs 10 seconds of sound bites on the evening news and makes what the person was saying sound like something completely opposite.

Krispy

 2008/2/15 9:55









 Re:

Some professing believers have a very shallow view of Gods grace and teach no water = eternal flames, even if you have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ with child like saving faith and been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Thus they keep this command out of bondage.

Some professing believers on the other hand are lacivous and despise the commands of Christ, rather then delight in them.

I think kripsy summed it up nicely with his car accident analogy. We are commanded to be baptized and all of Christs people joyfully keep His commandements. However we are saved by grace, just as the thief on the cross was. It is quite simple. We believe onto salvation and obey out of a pure heart love for Christ.

In Him - Jim

 2008/2/15 9:59
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

broclint wrote:

1 Corinthians 1:14 - 19 (KJV) 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17[b]For Christ sent me not to baptize,[/b] but to
[u]preach the gospel[/u]: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.



John 1:33 And I knew him not: [b]but he that sent me to baptize with water[/b], the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

What Paul means is, God did not send me to baptize without preaching. When he goes on to say, but he sent me to preach the gospel-it is with understanding that all who adhere to the Gospel should and would be baptized.

But, John the BAPTIST, as stated above, WAS SENT TO BAPTIZE-yet that doesn't mean John didn't preach,and also doesn't mean anything that Paul said he wasn't sent to baptize-but of course we KNOW that John preached though he was sent to baptize. Because preaching and baptizing go together.

Acts 2:38 "....repent AND BE BAPTIZED..."
Acts 8:35 "35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and [b]preached unto him Jesus.[/b] 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a [b]certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? [/b]

Matt 28:19 19 Go ye therefore, and [b]teach all nations, baptizing them[/b] in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Mark 16:16 is clear as to this topic and question:
Mark 16:16 [color=FF3300]He that [b]BELIEVETH [size=medium]AND[/size]is BAPTIZED shall be saved[/b]; but he that believeth not shall be damned.[/color][b]

 2008/2/15 10:09Profile









 Re: please im confused about baptism and feel i could go to hell

Jesse,
I,so want to talk to you about this. But I may need to give just a little at a time, to what the Lord has taught me through the years.
First ,consiter the scripture:
#1-(Mt.23:39-43`Two men were hung on a cross... (thieves)..one railed at Jesus in unbelief..`IF' Thou be the Christ , save thyself and us.
the other feared God,repented and`Jesus said unto him`verily I say unto thee,Today shalt thou be with Me in paridise.'

#2-Please consiter the WORD repent and it`s meaning.
Repent:We were walking in one direction(in the FLESH) now..to repent means to do an about-face.
turn around and go the opposit `WAY'a follower of Jesus Christ.`My sheep HEAR My voice and they follow Me'(Jn.10)`Jesus said ~I AM THE WAY,...you were WALKING in your own WAY ...flesh ,Now FOLLOW ME'
Baptisiam,(water submerion)is ,I would
say, an open show/sign,
..to what has taken place in the heart/life.
A passing FROM death(FLESH life) to LIFE(Spirit
LIFE) in HIM.
A sign of Baptisim, a death /to life
remembering too, that we start off as babes in the Lord.
If Good Lord will,
more maybe later,
In His Love,
Ebeth






 2008/2/15 10:10
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Mark 16:16 is clear that one MUST believe AND BE BAPTIZED to be saved.



Only when taken out of the context of scripture as a whole... and only when you ignore the last part of that verse.

The last part of that verse says: [i]"but he that believeth not shall be damned."[/i] Notice it doesnt say "he that believeth not and/or is not baptised shall be damned.

Krispy



Uh...this is because unbelievers DON'T GET BAPTIZED, only people who have heard the Gospel, BELIEVE IT and have REPENTED get baptized Krispy-that is the scriptural way.

Also this is because "..he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY..." Unbelievers do not have to or committ any specific sin to be damned-they are already damned.

It's funny you say notice the last part of the verse, but you do not acknowledge the first part of the verse. The question asked in this topic is by someone who BELIEVES, not a non-believer, thus if he believes, then he must be baptized because :

Mark 16:16 He that BELIEVETH and is Baptized shall be saved...."

If you believe, you must be baptized-if you don't believe you don't have to not do anything because you are damned already-you were born damned(in sin)


 2008/2/15 10:16Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Brother, remember the thief on the cross, whom God gave us as an indelible reminder that the fulfillment of the requirement for salvation is instant and by faith alone in Jesus Christ. [i]"O, remember me, Lord, when thou comest into thy kingdom.."[/i] Returning to the "saved thief" has saved me from going off into philosphical and theological tangents and speculations and has forever quashed any temptation to add to God's Word a superfluous requirement for salvation other than faith alone.

The thief on the cross had no time to do anything - no time for water baptism, no speaking in tongues, no knocking on doors, no adhering to the sacerdotal obligations of a particular denomination. All he had time to do was [i]die.[/i] Dear brother, if you won't forget Luke 23:42-43, you'll never be led astray by salvific additions.

Brother Paul

(edit) I felt I needed to add this, since I read more posts and saw the thief on the cross had already been referenced. The thief had no time to come down from the cross and get baptised and validate his committment to Jesus, but we who are physically able to this, should be delighted to do so...willfully. Not feeling compelled or contrained to do it out of fear of grieving God. The believer on whom the Spirit of the Lord rests will express the glad desire and intiate it themselves without having to be coerced by a pastor or assembly. At least this has been my experience: [i]"Paster , I would like to be baptized!"[/i]




The thief on the cross is no part in this discussion, was he saved without being water baptized YES, was he saved without receiving or being filled with the Holy Spirit-YES.....but what we must remember is that the thief on the cross died BEFORE Jesus gave the great Commission-and it is in the Great Commission, that Jesus Commissions the Disciples to Baptize.

In other words, the theif died before Jesus ever gave the disciples the Commandment to baptize-Jesus gave them the Commandment/Commission AFTER his Resurrection-by this time the thief had already been dead for 39 days or so.

Instead, people need to look at how every single person in the Book of Acts who believed was BAPTIZED IMMEDIATLEY upon belief/confession.

 2008/2/15 10:24Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Instead, people need to look at how every single person in the Book of Acts who believed was BAPTIZED IMMEDIATLEY upon belief/confession.



Is this true? Was Paul baptized in water immediately?


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/2/15 10:29Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

BlazedbyGod wrote:

Quote:
Mark 16:16 is clear that one MUST believe AND BE BAPTIZED to be saved.




Blazed

Do you believe that in the end days there will be people that are given the choice of denying God and living, or accepting God and dying? Like in the days of Revelation... cutting off of heads?

Do you think those saints who accept Jesus under the penalty of death will be given a chance to be baptized by their captors? Will these evil men say something like this:

Question to the saint/s, "Do you believe in Jesus?" Answer, "Yes". Reply, "You will now be put to death, allow us to baptize you first"


Belief is the only way. Baptism is important, but will not save you. By claiming that you NEED to be baptized is turning the baptism itself into a works.

Works do not save.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/15 10:30Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re:

Brother Blazed, you are getting a little too hot in your response. Remember that the inquiry here was not whether he should be baptized but whether baptism were essential to salvation and it clearly is not. You would put millions into hell by such a doctrine. Sure we are to follow the Lord in all the ordinances such as communion, some require "foot washing" others speaking in tongues "to be saved" and there is no doubt that all of these are doctrines taught in the Bible but are not NOT what saves us.

Again read the context of what Paul said and he made no mistake in saying it:1 Corinthians 1:14 - 18 (KJV) 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

He did not even recall who or who he did not baptize. It is not that baptism is unimportant, but very obviously Paul was concerned in getting folks converted, saved, redeemed, by the BLOOD of Jesus Christ. Water is used as a symbol, nothing more, nothing less.

Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/2/15 10:33Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Quote:
Instead, people need to look at how every single person in the Book of Acts who believed was BAPTIZED IMMEDIATLEY upon belief/confession.



Is this true? Was Paul baptized in water immediately?



Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was [b]baptized[/b].

 2008/2/15 10:37Profile





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