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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sinners Prayer?? Good or Bad??

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 Re:

My "sinner's prayer" was "Oh God, I've got to come to you!"

It was emotional need (couldn't live without Him any longer - even if it meant giving up a Muslim boyfriend!) rather than conviction of sin that drew me at first.

Conviction of sin, (instead of its counterfeit - chronic guilt and inferiority) came later.

There's no stereotype in coming to the Lord, because we are all individuals.

As has been said, a form of words is no good as such, and can be a great barrier to true salvation. Yet, if the form of words is uttered from the heart...

It's as dangerous to think you are "saved" [i]just because[/i] you have "said the prayer" as it is to think you are saved if you have been baptized as a baby.

Jeannette

 2008/2/15 14:48
washad
Member



Joined: 2007/11/15
Posts: 47
arkansas

 Re: Sinners Prayer?? Good or Bad??

Sorry about the misunderstanding. Yes the "sinners prayer" as a form has been and is a great hinderance to sharing the gospel. As for it's being biblical, I think not. A person who the Holy Spirit is dealing with is fully capable of verbalizing their feelings even if it is "just" have mercy on me a sinner. They do not need us to "make sure they say it right". God looks at the heart. He knows what their true desire is. If it is not right then a thousand sinners prayers will never do. If it is being dealt with then a single glance upwards, heart desiring and asking forgiveness and mouth confessing Jesus as Lord and Saviour will do.


_________________
jonathan

 2008/2/15 15:27Profile









 Re:

How about "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Quote:

washad wrote:
Sorry about the misunderstanding. Yes the "sinners prayer" as a form has been and is a great hinderance to sharing the gospel. As for it's being biblical, I think not. A person who the Holy Spirit is dealing with is fully capable of verbalizing their feelings even if it is "just" have mercy on me a sinner. They do not need us to "make sure they say it right". God looks at the heart. He knows what their true desire is. If it is not right then a thousand sinners prayers will never do. If it is being dealt with then a single glance upwards, heart desiring and asking forgiveness and mouth confessing Jesus as Lord and Saviour will do.

 2008/2/15 18:25









 Re:

Well theres got to be repentance, and the Holy Spirit has to be dealing with you, and God has to be drawing you ,and you've got to be hearing from the Word ,and you've got to be holding your mouth just right, and you've got to confess and turn from sin, and the stars have to be lined up just right, and the moon has to be full, and you've got to be kneeling ....oh....wait....youve got to be prostrate....and....oh...yess....youve got to be really sorry for your sins....and youve got to have a preacher.....aaaaaaand......the pews have to be blue, and the spirit cloud has to be present...aaaand no babys can be crying or that would mean the spirit is not there.....aaaaand youve got to be reading from a KJV........aaaand...if...you....are not feeling it it's not real aaaaaand....your not really saved, but theres hope if you'll just say it all just right and really really mean it ....oh...but youve got to be truly repentant... and youve got to make sure you turn from that sin....and then if God is in a good mood then you can be saved............Maybe. :-D

 2008/2/15 21:16









 Re:

I almost forgot, we gotta get this right. Youve most certainly have got to be predestined....and elected, and as soon as the spirit hits you ya gotta speak in tongues, and be slayne in the spirit. If youre nose is running you better wipe it or you could be disqualified, and be sure what ever you do that you take a bath beforehand and wash your hands three times and recite the Lords prayer in preperation for the anointing. 8-)

 2008/2/16 11:40
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hello…

The following is taken from Keith Green’s message [url=http://www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/whatswrongwiththegospel2.html ][i]What’s Wrong with the Gospel, Part II[/i][/url]. Like Keith Green, I believe that a true “sinner’s prayer” will gush out of the heart of a person who truly wants to know the Lord. During my own conversion, I spent hours out in a field one night at Summer Camp crying out to God – alone – and not knowing how to pray. I simply poured out my soul to the Lord with no one else around. I simply cried out in agony that I wanted to know Him, and that I would give up everything – my past, present and future – if I could just know Him and be His friend. There was no token or repeated “little prayer” that I said. It was simply putting voice (or at times, silence) when communicating my heart to God.

Anyway, here is the article. I hope that it helps:

:-)

[b]Some Inventions Of Man That Have Become Essential Parts Of the Modern Gospel[/b]

[b]The Term and Concept of "Personal Savior."[/b] I find it very disturbing when something unnecessary is added to the Gospel. The use of the term "Personal Savior" isn't very harmful in itself, but it shows a kind of mind - set that is willing to "invent" terms, and then allow these terms to be preached as if they were actually found in the Bible.

But why must we do this? Why must we add needless, almost meaningless things to the Gospel? It is because we've taken so much out that we have to replace it with "spiritual double talk."
That's right, [b]double talk![/b] Would you ever introduce your sister like this: "[i]This is Sheila, my personal sister[/i]"?!? Or would you point to your navel and say, "[i]This is my personal bellybutton[/i]"? Ridiculous! But nevertheless, people solemnly speak of Christ as their [b]personal[/b] Savior, as if they've got Him right there in their shirt pocket - and as if when He returns, He will not have two, but [b]three[/b] titles written across His thigh: [b]King of kings, Lord of lords, and PERSONAL SAVIOR![/b] (See [i]Rev. 19:16[/i].) This is only one example of how a non-biblical term can be elevated to reverence by the Church, as if to say, "[i]Well even if it isn't in the Bible - it should be![/i]"

[b]The Alter Call.[/b] Imagine if you can, Jesus having people bow their heads after hearing the Sermon on the Mount, and then very slowly and softly (while Bartholomew plays "[i]How Great Thou Art[/i]" on the accordion) saying to the crowd, "While your heads are bowed and your eyes are closed, if you really want to be My disciple tonight, if you really want to show My Father and I that you truly mean to follow this sermon I have given, then I want you to slip your hand up slowly, so that I may see it. There now... yes... yes... I see that hand ... and that one ... and the one way back by the fig tree ... yes! Now, please, while Bart plays another chorus, I'd like you to start moving down through the center of the crowd ... yes, those who raised their hand. I want to know if you [b]really[/b] mean business. [i]I'd like to lead you in a prayer[/i] ...

I realize that there are some who will see such an illustration as sacrilegious. And that's just the point. They think that making fun of the "altar call" is making fun of God. But it isn't. Traditions die hard, because they take so long to form. Once I received a very intense letter from the pastor of a church who had sponsored me in a city-wide concert in his area. He was upset that I had "let several hundred souls go ungathered" because I had not given an altar call. He said, "[i]It seems you have no burden for souls[/i]." (Nothing could be further from the truth.) But because I had not given the recognized "official invitation," this pastor could see no value in my presentation of the Gospel. Or as Tony Salerno, (director of "The Agape Force"), once remarked, "[i]If you don't give an altar call, they think you have committed the 'unpardonable sin[/i]!'"

[b]The Gradual Altering Of the "Alter Call"[/b]

Believe it or not, the altar call was invented only about 150 years ago. It was first used by the American evangelist, Charles Finney, as a means of separating out those who wanted to talk further about the subject of salvation. Finney called the front pew "the anxious seat" (for those who were "anxious" about the state of their souls) or "the mourner's bench." Finney never "led them in a prayer," but he and a few others would spend a great deal of time praying with and giving specific instruction to each, one by one, until finally, everyone was sent home to pray and continue seeking God until "they had broken through and expressed hope in Christ," as Finney would say.

The early Salvation Army, going a bit further on Finney's innovation, developed what they called "the penitent form" or "the mercy seat." After a rousing time of singing and preaching, they would invite any sinner present who wanted to confess his sins to God and repent, to come to the front, and they would be prayed for individually. I have met a few older Christians who used to attend some of these early meetings, and they said that sometimes people would stay there all night, and on a few occasions, even a few days, weeping and confessing their sins with broken hearts. There were always some who would stay right there to instruct them further, encouraging them to make a clean sweep of sin from their lives.

This is what the early "altar call" was like. But gradually, it began to become a fixed part of every meeting, and like all other traditions, it began to lose its original spirit. The "coming forward" part started to be more important than the "sorrow, confession, repentance, and instruction" parts. Eventually, anyone who would "come down the aisle" was excitedly proclaimed "a new believer in Christ!" No matter how they felt, they still were told, "[i]Your sins are forgiven, brother! Rejoice in Christ[/i]!" How many a miserable, defeated, and confused person has come away from a meeting like this? ([i]Jer. 6:14[/i])

[b]The Sinner's Prayer. [/b] Can you also try and imagine this scene where Jesus is leading some new "disciples" in the "sinner's prayer"?

"Wow! There are so many that came forward for salvation tonight!" (The multitude applauds.) "Now, it is very simple. You just repeat this little prayer after Me, and then you're a Christian! Now it doesn't really matter whether you fully understand the prayer . . . it works just the same. Now ready? Repeat after Me... '[i]Dear Jesus... Come into my heart...[/i]'"and so on ...

As you can see, when we try to picture Jesus Himself using our modern methods of evangelism, it seems completely foolish. I think this is a very good test for any method. "Could I see Jesus doing this?" or "Could I see Jesus preaching or teaching this?" Since the Bible tells us, "[i]Walk in the manner that He walked" (I John 2:6)[/i]), we should always try to compare our actions and message to the Master's.

It is obvious that there is no "set" [b]sinner's prayer[/b]. There are many variations, with different lengths, different wordings, different endings, etc., but the contents are usually the same. The prayer usually includes phrases like, "Dear Jesus," "Come into my heart," "I admit I have sinned" (at least the [b]better[/b] ones contain this last statement - there are some who do not even like to mention [b]sin[/b] in their "sinner's prayer"), "Fill me with Your Spirit," "In Jesus' name. Amen." Extremely harmless . . . nothing wrong with a prayer like that, right? Wrong! It isn't the wording that's important; it's the state of heart of the one saying it.
[b]I believe that a true "sinner's prayer" will gush out of anyone who is truly seeking God and is tired of being enslaved to sin.[/b] ([i]Matt. 5:[/i])

The very act of "leading someone in a prayer" is utterly ridiculous. You will find nothing even remotely like it in the Bible, or among the writings and biographies of those in Church history. It completely savors of crowd and peer pressure tactics, and (please forgive me) brainwashing techniques. I do not believe that Jesus wants to have His disciples "repeat after Me." I believe He wants them to [b]follow after Him![/b]

[b]Premature Birth[/b]

As with the altar call, the practice of having someone repeat a prayer with the minister probably originated from the best of intentions. And no doubt, there are those who have "followed through," continuing to pray and walk with God, entering into the path of righteousness through God's infinite grace. But also, like the altar call, the so-called "sinner's prayer" is one of those tools that make it alarmingly easy for someone to consider himself a Christian, when he has absolutely no understanding of what "counting the cost" ([i]Luke 14:28[/i]) really means.

The greatest reason I believe that God can be grieved with the current use of such tools as the "altar call" and "sinner's prayer" is because they can take away the conviction of the Holy Spirit prematurely, before the Spirit has time to work repentance leading to salvation. With an emotional splash that usually doesn't last more than a few weeks, we believe we're leading people into the Kingdom, when really we're leading many to hell - by interfering with what the Spirit of God is trying to do in a person's life. [b]Do you hear?[/b] Do you understand that this constitutes [b]"spiritual abortion"[/b]? Can't you see the eternal consequences of jumping the gun, trying to bring to birth a baby that isn't ready?

We are so afraid that we'll see a "big one that got away," that we'd rather rush someone into a shallow decision, and get the personal gratification of seeing him "go down the aisle," than take the time to fully explain things to him, even if it takes long hours and nights of travailing prayer for his soul. We just don't "have the time" to do things God's way anymore.

But God would rather see [b]one true convert[/b] than an ocean full of "decisions." Oh, can't you see what a mess we're in? What we've done to the Gospel? And when those "converts" no longer want to fellowship with us, when they want to go back to their old friends and their old way of life, we have the nerve to call it "backsliding," when we stood in the very way of them ever "front-sliding" toward the cross! Oh, it breaks my heart to think of that awesome day when God will judge those who have "stumbled one of these little ones." ([i]Mark 9:42[/i])

:-(

EDIT: By the way, the actual audio version of Keith Green's message (What's Wrong with the Gospel, Part II) is also available [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1201]HERE at SermonIndex[/url]! Enjoy!


_________________
Christopher

 2008/2/16 12:23Profile





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