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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Barack Obama & Hillary Clinton: The Blind Leading the Blind

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 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

...I had brothers in the Marines from all different races... black, japanese, jewish, hispanic, white... you name it. And would have given my life for any one of them without a second thought. Being involved in sports I have had fellow athletes of different races compete with and against me. As a coach, it might surprise you to know that ALL FOUR of the coaches that coach for me are black. I hand picked my coaches...

Attaboy, Krispy!

Quote:
...Like I said before... the issue is a PEOPLE problem, not a race problem. [i][b]The issue is a SIN problem, not a SKIN problem[/b][/i]. Black AND white.

Well put, "a sin problem , not a skin problem".

When I went to Uganda as a teacher in the 1970's one of the first things I found out was that African children are just as naughty as white children. The only difference seemed to be that their naughtiness takes a different form, probably because of culture rather than race.

I never had any colour prejudice. But the really amazing thing was that after a while, I even became "colour-blind". (On first arrival I felt terribly conspicuous - like a polar bear lost in a flock of blackbirds!) But one day I looked at one of the African schoolgirls and she reminded me, in looks, of a white girl I knew back home!

During the East African Revival a team, black and white, missionaries and Africans, visited the South of the USA. There were testimonies after the meeting, and one white Southern lady said, "I praise the Lord for what our black brother on the platform said..."

One dear African leader (I think it was William Nagenda, well known in the revival) found himself looking around to see who this "black brother" was; before he realised she meant him!

Let's all cultivate this kind of colour-blindness!

Quote:
...If he has lost his house to the casino... it's HIS fault and no elses.

Unless you're a Calvinist... then it's God's fault. :-P ... sorry, couldnt resist that!

HAHAHA

Krispy, you are a breath of fresh air!

By the way, is this thread about Race, abortion, politics or what?

Blessings

Jeannette

 2008/2/28 13:05
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504
Mississippi

 Re:

In my experience of 15 years as a volunteer at a Crises Pregnancy Center, the clients who were more likely wanting to abort their babies were not the poor women. It was the educated, the ones with a job or the woman that has been abandoned by her husband/boyfriend (not many of these)and the woman impregnated by rape. The woman on the lower end of the economic ladder were more likely to keep their child - they depended on government funding for their support. This scenario was true regardless of race, black or white.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2008/2/29 10:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
they depended on government funding for their support



One of the very few positive effects of our government's programs. I never considered before that the welfare system was actually saving the lives of babies... albeit not the intended purpose.

Speaking of welfare... when the church starts to be the church... feeding the poor, clothing the naked, taking care of widows, etc... as scripture tells us to do, then the government wont need to have programs like welfare, etc.

But today the church would rather build ivory towers unto itself instead of using those billions of dollars it brings in each year to do the ministry that scripture tells us to do.

Instead of building a gymnasium for all it's members to play in, why doesnt the church build a soup kitchen?

Krispy

 2008/2/29 11:46









 Re:

abortion is the last form of capital punishment allowed by our government. and any form of violence used to solve problems should be abhorent to all Christians.

nevertheless, i can't help wondering about what would have happened to 15,000,000 unwanted babies had they been born. undoubtedly our society would have been much worse off, as unloved children too often grow up to be criminals

of course, some of these could have been adopted into good homes, but my guess is that many would have ended up in prison. and many innocent people would have been harmed or killed.

i am not saying this to justify in any way abortion. it is murder. i am saying that if abortion was outlawed entirely, there would be alot more unfit parents bringing up future dangerous criminals.

the sin of illicit fornication costs us one way or another. no gettin around it.

bub

 2008/2/29 14:29









 Re:

Quote:
i am not saying this to justify in any way abortion. it is murder. i am saying that if abortion was outlawed entirely, there would be alot more unfit parents bringing up future dangerous criminals.



And a lot of them would have gotten saved just like Niki Cruz did, or any other number of criminals turned Christians.

I understand that you're not condoning abortion, Bub, but I can help but get the impression that you're trying to put something of a positive spin on it. But there isnt one. Most abortions are not carried out by people who would be unfit parents. Just like Ginny said, most are career women, or teen age girls from middle class families. Not crack heads impregnated by drug dealers.

Not giving those babies a chance at life is a tragedy. Yea, some will turn out bad. But think about what we've lost! We've lost engineers, doctors, artists, musicians, theologians, missionaries, teachers, quarterbacks, scientists, preachers... it's staggering.

There may never be a cure for cancer because there is a very real chance that the one person who could have discovered a cure... was aborted.

No Bub, there is nothing positive about abortion. Not at all.

Krispy

 2008/2/29 14:51









 Re:

K-man,

hear ya, but i have to point out that the career women and teenagers would also be very bad parents. the irony here is that if you are so insensitive and calloused that you consider abortion as an option, you most definately lack the qualifications (judgment, heart, consideration of others) to be a good parent.

bub

 2008/2/29 15:08
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

All of our layer upon layer of social problem solving...like the endless coats of crusted paint on an old house that is rotten and ready to collapse. Sin rots the original house, and then come the social and religious discussions about restoration projects we are incapable of bringing about.

Sometimes I wonder if the difference between a liberal and a conservative Christian is that the liberal seeks the kingdom of heaven without Jesus, and the conservative seeks Jesus without the kingdom of heaven.

Brethren, I feel like I've been both at separate times...but rarely both at the same time.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/2/29 20:00Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
the irony here is that if you are so insensitive and calloused that you consider abortion as an option, you most definitely lack the qualifications (judgment, heart, consideration of others) to be a good parent.



Bubba, you are right....almost. Please allow me to explain my reasoning.

God made each gender different in the sense of how one views life, how they perceive knowledge, and their responses to it.

Males think logically in their approach to life.

Females think emotionally.

And therein lies the rub.

After God made Adam & Eve he called it "very good" and so we do well to accept, believe and act on this fact.

When sin entered in, it contaminated this thinking process, hence we need each other so much the more to give balance to this mix. Otherwise one will likely go to extremes.

Now to the issue at hand: the effects of abortion on the female.

Since the female is by nature more emotional, she will quickly experience guilt. Unless this guilt is acted upon, it goes underground - it will always be there - somewhere. So if guilt is denied -the Bible calls it "searing of the conscience" - and buried, it will resurface as an apparent unrelated problem, hence you will find a sharp rise in psychological problems among victims of abortion. These women are much more likely to abuse their existing children and those to come in the future, they have problems in their marriages, they distrust males, they are angrier then most women.

(One time when sharing with a pro-abort client the symptoms of post-abortion syndrome in a female, she sat quietly, listening and after my spiel told me, "You described my mom, that is what she is like!" I was a little taken back, and then I asked her "did your mom have an abortion?" She said she did! but she went on to declare she thinks she can handle it..Oh! **sigh** the deceitfulness of sin..)

Some statisticians will declare that roe v wade has triggered an epidemic in divorce because of the condition known as PAS (which I just described). However, I am inclined to believe that abortion is not the only contributing factor, albeit a very important one, we see in the decline of stability in human relationships.

The short of the long is that you have the emotional factor to deal with in a female when you are discussing the effects of abortion: you cannot dismiss it, you cannot change it. You have to cooperate with it in order to have an orderly society, not to mention the spiritual aspect..the others dealt with that angle of this issue. I shared the practical.

You can google 'divorce abortion', child abuse statistics', and find more then you may want to know. You will find a lot of info posted by Catholics. And I think it is a dying shame that evangelicals, who suppose themselves to be more accurate doctrinally then Catholics, have not been united in their positions on these serious issues and are weak in their opposition to them. By default Catholics have taken the lead in defending the family, the pro-life cause on the national level.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2008/3/1 10:44Profile









 Re:

Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.


No wonder that the New churches want to get rid of anyone 50 or older - because they are the eye-witnesses of the moral decline in this world/nation.

Unless their minds have been dumbed down gradually also.


I would challenge anyone 55 or over to do their [i]own[/i] graphs on the decline of morality within their own lifetime alone.

I am grieving as I am sure they are - that anyone would even begin to claim "things are or have gotten better" -- for who?

Since when?

Since when has the moral climate improved - despite what few "abstinence" promoters there have been?

Sex is everywhere, and this younger generation doesn't even know it. They weren't raised on black and white TV or no TV at all.

If we don't take that verse above into this age - and there are corresponding verses in Revelation that are either in the present or future tense - I fear - I truly do fear for this generation.

[url=http://www.npr.org/templates/common/image_enlargement.php?imageResId=18189650]chart from Chris[/url] - What does this REALLY prove ?


Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.


A.T. Robertson's Word Studies in the Greek -

on Rev 22:11 -
"Let him do unrighteousness still (adikēsatō eti). First aorist (constative) active imperative of adikeō, viewed here as a whole. The language is probably ironical, with a reminder of Dan_12:10, in no sense a commendation of their lost estate. Charles rejects this verse as not like John.
[b]It is the hopelessness of the final state of the wicked which is here pictured. So as to “Let him be [u]made[/u] filthy still”[/b] (rupanthētō eti). First aorist (constative) passive imperative of rupainō, old verb, to make foul or filthy (from rupos, filth, 1Pe_3:21, as is ruparos, filthy), here only in N.T. The use of eti is not perfectly clear, whether “still” or “yet more.”
It is the time when Christ has shut the door to those outside who are now without hope [b][the 5 foolish virgins][/b](Mat_25:10; Luk_13:25). Ruparos occurs elsewhere in N.T. only in Jam_2:2, and ruparia (filthiness) only in Jam_1:21.
So then “the righteous” (ho dikaios) is to do righteousness still (dikaiosunēn poiēsatō eti, first constative aorist active imperative of poieō) and [b]“the holy” (ho hagios) to be [u]made[/u] holy still[/b] (hagiasthētō eti, first constative aorist passive imperative of hagiazō).
[b] The states of both the evil and the good are now fixed forever. There is no word here about a “second chance” hereafter."[/b]


There comes a point where we need His eye salve to see and then "cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof."


How has the morality of just this nation "improved" in the last how many years?


At Church, when face to face - we can see each other's age and respect that fact. I won't argue with someone half my age.
And if someone half my age comes arguing with me - I refer them to my Pastor.
It's called Order and respect in The Church.

And another sign of how this generation has declined in that area also.

Look at the churches as a whole - What have they done to stop the decline in morality ?

What have we done personally I ask ?

Or are we telling people - for unknown reasons ----- that things are getting or have gotten better.

Study the philosophy of Margaret Sanger. How homosexuality and so forth was for population control. As is pushing sex in every commercial, music, magazine - just everywhere.

 2008/3/1 16:56
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


 Re:

Hi ginnyrose...

Quote:
In my experience of 15 years as a volunteer at a Crises Pregnancy Center...

God bless you for your work! What a wonderful work on behalf of the unborn!
Quote:
the clients who were more likely wanting to abort their babies were not the poor women. It was the educated, the ones with a job or the woman that has been abandoned by her husband/boyfriend (not many of these)and the woman impregnated by rape. The woman on the lower end of the economic ladder were more likely to keep their child - they depended on government funding for their support. This scenario was true regardless of race, black or white.

I think that this is the actual national trend. Wealthy individuals are far more likely to use abortion as a means of birth control. For each unwanted baby, they choose extermination.

When the Republicans controlled Congress, they immediately banned Federal funding for most abortions. This affected many individuals on welfare. Yet ironically, the perception that has been expressed by the left that abortion is the more popular choice of the poor. This myth is astounding. Poor and minority groups tend to be far more conservative than even whites in regard to traditional moral prerogatives. According to the GSS, Black and Hispanics are the most opposed to abortion and the legalization of homosexual marriage. Yet most minorities, since the 1930s, still tend to vote for the leftist candidates. This could have something to do with economic decisions, or with a simple embrace of the myth that the left is out to “help the common man.”

Planned Parenthood's founders first pushed abortion as a means of eugenics, which would result in the removal of “undesirable” groups from America. Margaret Sanger even advocated "forced coercion" abortions in certain racial, ethnic and certain minority groups that she didn't think were "capable" of making a decision to not propagate. Sanger, a former Catholic turned Atheist, even created a newsletter called [i]The Woman Rebel[/i] – whose slogan was “No God and No Masters.” Ironically, Bill Clinton often cited Sanger in his continued embrace of the legalization of abortion.

There are quite a few myths in regard to abortion. In Texas, we are enduring the ongoing campaign in the Democratic primaries. Since Texas is a legislatively conservative state – even amongst most Democrats – it is ironic that neither of the Democratic candidates (Barack Hussein Obama or Hillary Rodham Clinton) are explaining what they really believe in regard to this issue. Both are ardent supporters of abortion. Obama even supports the horrific procedure known as “Partial Birth Abortion.” Yet none of the articles and advertisements are identifying this in Texas.

It is difficult to speak about the issue of abortion without meandering into the world of politics. Sadly, abortion has become part of the politics of this nation. If “righteousness exalts a nation,” what can be said about this nation of which you and I are a part? It is quite a “cop out” to claim that our citizenship is found solely in Heaven when Paul publicly claimed his citizenship to Rome. He spent the last part of his life in an attempt to get the Gospel to Rome. Keith Green used to always say that “this generation of Christians is responsible for this generation of souls.” I wonder: What have we done with our responsibility? Have we continued to meet in the catacombs of the Internet, or have we shouted from the rooftops the truth of God’s Word?

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/1 17:32Profile





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