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Sounds to me like revival, or at least a bit of fresh wind. If these numbers are true, and the fruit is lasting, this man certainly has an anointing

Benny Hinn must have the same anointing and all the others that are out there that are bringing in the masses. Is numbers a true sign that someone has an anointing?

Not being critical, just a curious question.

 2008/1/23 17:39

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL


She has requested an engraved image of the church on her tombstone.

Mrs. Caskey asked him to appoint a board of deacons to help govern the church, a tradition outlined in the church's charter.

I would like to juxtapose these two sentences if I may to prove a very subtle point. Mrs. Caskey doesn't appear to be interested in the church, ie. the people it represents or it's leadership, but instead in the investment she's put into it.

This church had dwindled to a dozen or so members. What we don't know is how many people were actually qualified as deacons, and whether or not she was hoping that she would be called upon as a deaconess.

A church in this state of disrepair doesn't need deacons, it needs a revival!

What deacons were not in the New Testament were rulers, or councils. Deacons were to feed the poor, and take care of the sick... but deacons in our modern churches have become religious councils like the ones Sanhedrin.

Churches are not democracies as much as sheep flocks are not democracies. The Shepherd, and those ordained to lead his sheep have been chosen, and although they should be kept accountable, it is no one in the congregation's right to gossip or slander their leader.

Ian Smith

 2008/1/23 18:11Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317



Compliments wrote:
Is numbers a true sign that someone has an anointing?

Not being critical, just a curious question.

Hey to me thats a good question, but I don't believe numbers have anything to do with anything, I think God has everything to do with everything. :-)


 2008/1/23 18:14Profile


Mrs. Caskey doesn't appear to be interested in the church, ie. the people it represents or it's leadership, but instead in the investment she's put into it.

Has anyone considered giving the gal a call and asking her? Were just playing guessing games, and assumptions. :-(

 2008/1/23 20:01

Joined: 2006/7/17
Posts: 140



Compliments wrote:
I want to bring something to the table in regards to this. Who does Church disciplining anyway? Is it really the job of the Pastor to monitor who's sinning and who's not?

I'm a member of FBC Muscle Shoals. Here's a little bit about how church discipline is handled at our church:

When it becomes publicly known that one of our members is in a [i]pattern[/i] of open sin and rebellion (i.e. adultery, drunkenness, etc.), his Small Group leader goes to that person and quietly addresses the matter with him, in a spirit of love and humility. The goal is that he will see the seriousness of his sin, and repent. If he refuses to listen, then one or two more members meet with him, urging him to repent, and offering help and prayer through his struggles with that particular sin.

Many private meetings take place with the person in question before anything is brought before the church -- and only then when it becomes crystal clear that he has no desire to leave his pattern of sin. When the matter needs to be addressed before the church, the elders and pastor only do so with a broken heart. They always preface it with this: that it is our goal to [i]restore[/i] this person to our fellowship, not drive him away. We pray that he will be miserable in his sin, so that he will run to Christ and experience full forgiveness and cleansing.

We just had a matter brought before our church last Sunday, and our pastor was crying during the discussion of it. It was not done with a spirit of self-righteousness, but of deep concern for the Lord's reputation (and purity of His body), and love for the brother living in rebellion.

Again, this is for open, willful sin, not just "slipping" into sin while trying to fight it.

Jennifer Richardson

 2008/2/4 22:18Profile


Compliments wrote:


Pastors may as well throw everyone out of the church including himself because everyone is guilty.

I am for discipline, correction and rebukes, but where do we draw the line?

Is this another form of legalism?

The spiritual man judges all things righteously. The fleshly is deceived by his own lusts and judges unrighteously. Anything that aims at establishing the authority and honor of man is of the flesh, and is therefore unrighteous. This is common for the carnal and unrepentant. On the hand, the spiritual man's goal is to glorify God even if he suffers persecution for it. Even when people revile him for truth's sake, on his part God is glorified.

So where do we draw the line? Who is to judge? Who gives man authority to decide what is right in such disputable matters? The pastor, the elders, the denomination, the majority, the law, or some other individual or party? This is a question which we must answer before we continue this conversation. I believe there is only one Giver and one Judge. He will not allow any flesh to glory in His presence. No man can have his way and keep God's blessing. So He, not us, will have to draw the line.

Lest we fall into unreality, we must thrive on the God's truth. We must not forget that the Lord knows those that are His, and that His sheep know His voice, and seek face--neither will they follow after another. They seek the things that are above, not the things on earth. To them church membership and the praise of men is of no value. All they seek is to please God. They are completely sufficient in Him. They don't care so much or worry about how they are going to handle this or that, how people will look at them, or how much they will suffer. Because they are slaves of Christ and they yearn to do His will; they no longer live but He lives in them. They are not their own, and they cannot own their own choices. Even if they suffer for His sake they know they will be blessed. These are the children of God. But not all are children of the light.

Since light and darkness have nothing in common, they may have to part company with people who seek their own glory, even good religious people such as pastors, elders, who try to lord it over their flock, not trusting but grieving the Spirit. This is more often the case today because the truth is scarcely preached and lived. If it is preached, sinners cannot stand in the pews unmoved. They will either repent or leave. They won't need to be asked to leave the church... unless they have always been children of the devil. The more frequent scenario is when God calls someone and shows them His glory. They have found life in Him, but also see that others don't appear to be partaking of it. They sense that there is something wrong with the church--that people live a lie--and the Lord gives them boldness so they speak up against it. If the people don't listen, the Christian will often be expelled or shunned as a divisive and rebellious person. The Lord will then lead him out to find pasture somewhere else. Light and darkness cannot dwell together in one place.

Of the apostolic times we often read, "the Spirit said thus" or "the Spirit told them to do this." May I ask, Is this same Holy Spirit insufficient today to accomplish the duties of God's people? Are we seeking the Spirit's mind or do we judge by what is conventional, convenient, rational, common? I believe the line here is very thin. In fact, it is impossible for men to succeed on their own. Our human standards are not like God's. We try to make Him in our own image. We don't judge what we ought to judge, and we judge what we ought not to judge. Our only hope is in Christ: that as we offer ourselves in faith as a living sacrifice to Him, we will ascertain His perfect will and He will by no means dishonor us. We should surrender to Him our opinions, our judgments, our prejudices, our intentions, and seek instead His mind and His wisdom, which no man can contradict. And when we give up what is ours--even our very life--we will receive that which is much better from Him (wisdom not carnal or bestial, but heavenly), and we will know what we must do.

The truth is that we are not there yet. We lack in knowledge, in wisdom, in discerment. We are not as spiritual as we think we should be. We are not qualified to make those hard choices. We are not. But praise God "who chose the things that are not to bring to nothing the things that are"! So, all I can say is: trust in Him, seek Him, ask Him, listen to Him, obey Him, patiently. Depend on God for everything. He IS enough! If we did that in our churches, we wouldn't need to analyze so much hypothetical situations because the glory of God will be among us.

 2008/2/7 20:35

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