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rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Out of order fellowship

Dear Miccah

Let me ask you a question sir. Who in your congregation is preaching that man is Lord?

Jesus is Lord of your house, Lord of my house, Lord of the school house, Lord of the white house, Lord in all of earth, heaven, and hell, Jesus is Lord God of all creation and until your Lord speaks to you through your heart instead of your mind you want be able to proceed any further. Lord God didn’t take a bone out of man’s head, Lord God took a bone out of man's side and created woman.

Man is first in creation and first in carnal marriage so that the real Lord can teach His sheep and lambs as an esample how you both are to be in subject in marriage to our Lord's Body if we have been cleansed by fire and have Christ in us, our only hope of glory.

KJV
[For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.]

Man’s traditions are a lot more poisonous than wives tales.

In Love Eddie




2 Corinthians 4

1. Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2. But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9. Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10. Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12. So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13. We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
14. Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
15. For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
16. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18. While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


_________________
Eddie

 2008/1/22 19:44Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

rowdy2 wrote:

Quote:



Dear Miccah

Let me ask you a question sir. Who in your congregation is preaching that man is Lord?



Great question. No one is preaching man is Lord. I am preaching what the Word is and says.

Quote:
...until your Lord speaks to you through your heart instead of your mind you want be able to proceed any further.



He also speaks to use through His written word, the Bible. The Bible is clear on this subject, it is just that some humans are not.

Quote:
[KJV
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.]



This scripture has been used and abused from those that wish to create confusion on many matters such as this, to accepting homosexuality as ok. What manner of light do you hold this scripture to, what context are you wanting it to fit? This scripture has nothing to do with divine order and a women and mans role in the family and church. This scripture is about equal heirship to the promise (of salvation through faith), not about equal headship in regards to divine order.

[u][b]Galatians 3:26-29[/b][/u]

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."


Many people confuse ability with order. Male headship with male domination. They also confuse a wife being submissive to her husband as being "seen and not heard". This is far from scriptual and anyone that preaches male domination over his wife knows not scripture.

Does a woman have capability to be an elder in the church? Absolutly, though it would be of an ungodly order. But, this does not change the fact that the Lord does not base His order on our ideas of capability? The Lord bases it on His criteria. Do you submit to His criteria??? To His will???

There are tons of scripture showing man as the head of the church/family. There are scriptures explaining how a man's family has to be in order for him to be considered as a leader from others. That are responsibilities of his wife and how she must hold up as well for consideration. Everything points to male headship, not female.

Thanks for your thoughts. Many blessings to all the saints, male and female.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/1/22 20:31Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re:

homosexuality ?
I fill sorry for those people and my heart goes out to them, but I don’t feel sorry for the spreaders of spiritual homosexuality [men worshiping men] from some misguided religion into the people concerns me more.


_________________
Eddie

 2008/1/22 20:53Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


rowdy2 wrote:

Quote:
...I don’t feel sorry for the spreaders of spiritual homosexuality [men worshiping men] from some misguided religion into the people concerns me more.



wow. I've never been indirectly called a homosexual before.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/1/22 21:12Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re:

I don't think you worship men. I understand a man and woman becoming one physical body in marriage, I have been married forty five years but I ask you to reconsider my point about the marriage of the body on earth to the Head in Heaven and pray with me that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven.


_________________
Eddie

 2008/1/22 21:32Profile
Friedrick
Member



Joined: 2004/8/19
Posts: 136
Nicaragua

 Re:

Quote:

Miccah wrote:


Many people confuse ability with order. Male headship with male domination. They also confuse a wife being submissive to her husband as being "seen and not heard". This is far from scriptual and anyone that preaches male domination over his wife knows not scripture.





Truly.

Also, Rowdy2, don't think for an instant that a wife being in submission to her husband means that she has become lower than him. In fact, without Biblical submission a man and woman cannot be one. Just as the geniousness and greatness of the Godhead. Just as Christ is submitted to the Father and the Spirit. Just as the Father is in submission to the Son and the Spirit. Just as the Spirit is in submission to Christ and the Father.


_________________
Joshua

 2008/1/22 23:25Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re:

Hello Friedrick

Good points on spiritual union.


[So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.



[then the fall



[then the reconciliation



[For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Only two chooses in my position

1]Sovereign Lordship of our Lord God.


or


2[rebellion and they are of one mind around the world, from India to China, from Sandia Arabia to Afghanistan, and from Rome to the pulpits of America they are of one mind and they deceive many and I was self deceived or by them at one time too.

God hath distributed to us a measure. I will stop before I stretch myself beyond my measure.



_________________
Eddie

 2008/1/23 0:26Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Out of order fellowship

Miccah,

A lot of folks have given you wise counsel. What I am about to say may not work very well, but it could be worth a try.

To many people submission is a dirty concept: "I am my own boss and I can do as I please, THANK-YOU!" Males have their own way of living out this principle and since you are a male, I will let you fill in the blanks here. To females it takes on another form - that of submitting to authority God has set over her. Now males also have authority they need to submit to, like employers, the law, work to serve their fellowmen, and so on. The concept of submission is part and parcel of harmonious living, living in humility for the one who died and saved us.

May I suggest you approach this issue at the most basic level and then build up on it? Too many females have been abused by bullies or sexual predators and resent any males who want to 'lead' and are in a self-protecting mode. This does not justify rebellion but may explain what has happened.

To build on this concept you will have to teach them how all have to submit to [i][b]Someone[/b][/i] - no one is exempt. And how all benefit from it. One could use the expression Wal-Mart (or is it Lowe's?)employees have on their work vests: "How may I help you?" Actually, if you were to teach this concept, it is submission but is not called that. It is called service. Perhaps if you were to use this term and emphasize it, you may get somewhere. Don't know - people are strange and if they are hell-bent on resisting any submission, there may not be a whole lot you can do. The basic thing to remember is that God loves them still and perhaps you could pray that God would reveal to them the importance of submission. Why, I'll bet they expect their children to obey them, do they not? Why so?

Brother, you have a tough job. God bless you..

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2008/1/23 2:18Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Re: Out of order fellowship

Here is a good message that might help.

Jesus Never Comes Next - Vance Havner

 2008/1/23 2:56Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

ginnyrose wrote:

Quote:
Miccah,

A lot of folks have given you wise counsel. What I am about to say may not work very well, but it could be worth a try.



Thank you for your words and counsel. I am open to anything that will improve my understanding of the word of God. I think that you hit it right on the head. We husbands are in submission to Chirst, and are not the top of the authority as some men would believe. We need to die to our wives, cherish and nurture them and place them above our own selfs and self interests.

[u][b]Ephesians 5:22-33[/b][/u]

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. [b]So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies;[/b] he who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but [b]nourishes and cherishes it[/b], just as the Lord does the church. For we are members of His body of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. [b]Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.[/b]


Quote:
Brother, you have a tough job. God bless you..



Thank you sister ginnyrose.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/1/23 11:27Profile





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