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Rom 8:28-29 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose for whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Katy, read the posts you're critiquing again.

If you didn't see "The Cross" in any of them, I don't know how.

As far as dying to self - do you really believe that we have no co-operative fellowship with God and that He doesn't need our "wills" and co-operation from us, to cause that "lack of looking to or at self" to allow Him to increase, by us willfully allowing "all things" to give us a choice of how to respond to them (us willingly decreasing) - and the more we respond to "all things" coming at us, to die to our own desires, feelings, etc., that that is our process of growth?

Do you have the "it's all GOD working and nothing of me" belief?

I made sure with the Joseph analogy to also include ALL the others in our Bibles, to prove out that God does choose our birth parents and all that happens to us along the way, as He did with all of them.
In psychology - they go back to how your parents or whomever raised you as the CAUSE of all your quirks - but if we look at His Word - the stories of each individual in the O.T., we see that those whom He did foreknow - which is everyone - they were born into the family they were - and the events that came about in their lives - like Moses being floated down the river in a basket and his sister following and getting Moses' own Mom to nurse him - etc. etc. etc. applies to us all. No accidents in our lives.
We're not randomly born to the circumstances we're born to.

You've misread all of my posts so far.

It's one thing to critique - it's another to be looking at other's posts 'over' critically and not seeing what they are attempting to say --- things that can easily be found in His Word.

I never implied that God authors the "evil" that WE do, but He does have the ability to turn those things around and somehow use even our blunders for "the Good".

I truly do appreciate your zeal for apologetics - but I believe you've missed most all of what I tried to express in every post that I've done on this thread, for some reason.

To test my "fruit" :-D Romans 8:28 is FOR 29.

 2008/1/22 13:35









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Quote:
I truly do appreciate your zeal for apologetics - but I believe you've missed most all of what I tried to express in every post that I've done on this thread, for some reason.



Anne, I do not recall even responding in any way to anything you have said on this thread, so I'm not sure how you could conclude I have missed all of what you have been trying to express.

First of all Anne, You first made a statement that our humanity brings glory to God....

That is what you may be referring to, and no I and possible others who understand our old flesh humanity know it can never bring Glory to God.

Taking that thought as your basis for the rest of your argument, i totally disagree with what you are saying.

You may think this is the Cross, but it is not.

Our Identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life is a once for all , however from that point on, a continual operation of the Holy Spirit putting to death the deeds of our old flesh.

Our only cooperation is total yielding to the process.

Anne, I am not doubting your relationship with the Lord in any way, and it is not my place to do that...I simply commented, and maybe I shouldn't have, that identifying with OT Saints can be as much a Psychology trip, as Alcoholics identifying with other AA Members in finding healing.

We might be able to identify with others going through similar situations, and find comfort in these things, but finding comfort is not the same as the actual death process.

Paul said, That I may KNOW HIM and the Power of HIS resurrection..and the fellowship of His suffering.

Anne, I know that what you believe is something also taught by Kay Arthur. I'm not sure if you have been influenced by her teaching or not, but it is much the same.

Now, God knows beginning from the end, and who our parents are, but to go as far as to say, we existed before we existed gets a little ???.( Mormonish).

Quote:
I made sure with the Joseph analogy to also include ALL the others in our Bibles, to prove out that God does choose our birth parents and all that happens to us along the way, as He did with all of them.



Did God force a violent rapist on anyone to bring forth a child????? Yet, how wonderful those who choose to keep that child is blessed by God.

God is not the author of sin, nor is it God's will that any one be conceived this way, yet I'm sure those who were conceived Christ died for as well. He died for the sin of the world.

Even a woman raped, God does not force procreation on His creation in this way. This is how you suggest God works to choose your parents?

Or are you suggesting those are not and can never be saved?

Tough questions Huh?

Love in Christ
Katy



 2008/1/22 14:30









 Line upon line, but not K. Arthur's way -

Quote:
Anne, I do not recall even responding in any way to anything you have said on this thread, so I'm not sure how you could conclude I have missed all of what you have been trying to express.



Bottom of page 3 Sis.

Quote:
First of all Anne, You first made a statement that our humanity brings glory to God....

That is what you may be referring to, and no I and possible others who understand our old flesh humanity know it can never bring Glory to God.

Taking that thought as your basis for the rest of your argument, i totally disagree with what you are saying.



I'd rather you quote me before "stating what I supposedly stated". Thanks!

Quote:
Our Identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life is a once for all , however from that point on, a continual operation of the Holy Spirit putting to death the deeds of our old flesh.

Our only cooperation is total yielding to the process.



When and where have I ever said anything to the contrary on any thread since I've been a member Sis Kate?

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Anne, I am not doubting your relationship with the Lord in any way, and it is not my place to do that...



Didn't think you were and glad you feel that way.

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I simply commented, and maybe I shouldn't have, that identifying with OT Saints can be as much a Psychology trip, as Alcoholics identifying with other AA Members in finding healing.



The whole of His Word is written for our admonistion, exhortation, encouragement and nothing of it shall pass away. Jesus Christ - the same, yesterday, today and forever - etc.

Quote:
We might be able to identify with others going through similar situations, and find comfort in these things, but finding comfort is not the same as the actual death process.



Hebrews 11

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Paul said, That I may KNOW HIM and the Power of HIS resurrection..and the fellowship of His suffering.



Phil 3:7-15 are known to be my favorites.

Quote:
Anne, I know that what you believe is something also taught by Kay Arthur. I'm not sure if you have been influenced by her teaching or not, but it is much the same.



No Katy, You obviously don't know what I believe and I don't listen to her or much of anyone actually. I'm very strong on believing/practicing Sola Scriptura and testing all things against It only.

Quote:
Now, God knows beginning from the end, and who our parents are, but to go as far as to say, we existed before we existed gets a little ???.( Mormonish).



Again --- How did you get that from any of my posts?

Quote:
Did God force a violent rapist on anyone to bring forth a child????? Yet, how wonderful those who choose to keep that child is blessed by God.



Again - had you truly read any of my posts - anywhere on SI, besides just the last post I did, you'd see that I said that God did not cause us to do evil.

And yes, that child is from GOD - despite the way he/she was born and He also has plans for their salvation - if they will come to Him.

Like Solomon, who was born out of adultery. (I know - I have scratched a bald spot on my head also, trying to figure it all out, but Jesus' geneology could do that to ya also.)

Quote:
God is not the author of sin



S.A.A.

Quote:
God is not the author of sin, nor is it God's will that any one be conceived this way, yet I'm sure those who were conceived Christ died for as well. He died for the sin of the world.

Even a woman raped, God does not force procreation on His creation in this way. This is how you suggest God works to choose your parents?

Or are you suggesting those are not and can never be saved?

Tough questions Huh?

Love in Christ



The question isn't tough at all - the fact that you even asked them may be - in view of the fact that I've never hinted that sin was ordered by The LORD.

But - the rest, I've already answered, countless time through-out SI.

Again, that child is not a mistake or an accident or cursed - but GOD did not order, choose, ordain, cause, Rape.

Go figure !

The Love of GOD - 1 Corth 13

 2008/1/22 15:03









 Re: Line upon line, but not K. Arthur's way -

Quote:
Like Solomon, who was born out of adultery. (I know - I have scratched a bald spot on my head also, trying to figure it all out, but Jesus' geneology could do that to ya also.)



Anne, Solomon was NEVER born out of adultry.

That child died, remember, the one Bathsheba conceived with David while in sin!

Stop scratching!

Anne, you made a point blank statement that God chose our parents.

But what about the child who is molested, abused, etc by his or her father or mother? Or the Child murdered by his or her father or mother.

These are tough questions to those who have found themseves in this life with such situations.

Did God chose these parents to these children.

I say , it goes beyond what is taught in scripture.

And the implications of these teachings goes beyond even what I have asked. I never said you taught them or didn't teach them, but making such statements without thinking it through is saying this exact thing.

All things working together for Good are promises to those IN CHRIST. This promise does not include those outside of Christ.

Anne, my comments are based as well on another thread re; suicide. I even commented there about a reply back to me that took me by surprise that I had done it.....realizing then, you didn't understand the context.

So, with that, maybe we really don't understand one another when it comes to the finished work of Christ in the believers life.


Love in Christ
Katy




 2008/1/22 15:23









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So, if you have multiple wives and kill one of their husbands, God just kills the first child and then the whole shabang is O.K. for you?

Katy, you mentioned the suicide thread, where I recall us posting in one accord against some other's beliefs.
Could you - once again - bring up Quotes to these things you are saying that you are disagreeing with?

Quote:
All things working together for Good are promises to those IN CHRIST. This promise does not include those outside of Christ.



Sigh. Katy - do you really believe I think otherwise?

But I know you agree that it was God's plan for ALL to BE saved.

HE so loved the world - that not one of them is an accident and all that happens to them is for His Glory But - HE is not the "Author" of their choices to sin against Him.


If someone gets saved tomorrow - don't you believe that GOD still had plans for them since before their birth?


Katy - I'm not a Calvinist at all - but I do very Strongly believe in His Omniscient Foreknowledge - and how despite it all - His INTENT was to work all things together for the Good - WHEN we - any person - comes to Him by faith through His grace.

 2008/1/22 15:42









 Re:

Feel led to repost a small portion on depression.

The part that there is some truth in that depression may be at times, anger kept inward.

OR, angry people may still have not dealt with the cause of their depression.

What do you think?

 2008/1/22 15:48









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Quote:
But I know you agree that it was God's plan for ALL to BE saved.



Anne, are you a Universalist? I believe that is what they believe.

It may be God's heart tht all will repent, but no where does scriptue say it is God's PLAN that all willbe saved.


Back to something.

In the OT, anyone caught in Adultry was stoned to death.

Actually, before an Angel appeared to Joseph, Mary was going to be privately put away ( stoned to death) because she was pregnant and not married.



Quote:
If someone gets saved tomorrow - don't you believe that GOD still had plans for them since before their birth?



God's plan for all that come to Him are the exact same plan, being conformed to His Image.

God's Plan is turning sinners into Saints!

It is not necessary that God had to plan your parenthood, or your childhood, or parents to do so.

We are saved on an individual basis, and have a personal relationship with Christ.

We are a New creation In Christ, and that is what is so wonderful...it is not based on my past, who my parents are or aren't or how I even got here.

That is the Good News to all and any.

Katy

 2008/1/22 15:58









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Sis, I realize now what the problem is.

I sit and read everyone's posts about 1000 times more than I just post.

You obviously don't.

I know you work and I can't so the time factor is the problem - and I fully understand that, having worked a lot.

No Sis, I am not a universalist. I was just enjoying Krispy's thread on who can be saved.

So, we're all born into this generation by happenstance?

 2008/1/22 16:17









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Quote:
So, we're all born into this generation by happenstance?



Well, we are born in an age of Grace, and no one is, (at least here anyway) being stoned for children out of wedlock.

But look at China, and how many babies are killed especially girls, or families who have more then 2.

God created Man and Woman to procreate, however, with instruction of family life...not like the animal kingdom.

However, we have become like the animal the animal kingdom....even perverted sexuality in many ways. This is not of God, but man's doing.

Man has taken it upon himself to even produce by man made methods.......even going as far as trying to clone.

Much of this is questioned.

Many women during war times have been imprisoned and forced to have children.

So, God allows man's folly, He did not create it preordain it or forordained it.

Katy

 2008/1/22 16:34
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

anne, I just wanted to add....There is a part in pilgrims progress where they are captured by the giant of despair. He takes them to doubting castle and he beats them regularly in their cell. Usually one bro. is "in victory" and the other is depressed,due to their plight.
One day they were both depressed. They talked suicide and all kinds of hopeless talk. Then Christian remembered the "key" on the necklace.
He pulled it out and told his companion"wait a minute! I have a key that will unlock any door in doubting castle." He showed his bro the key. On it was written "Gods promises"
Christian tried it in the lock and it worked! they then went to the big drawbridge at the wall of the castle. It took much effort but it opened the drawbridge as well. they started running for their lives and when they looked back the giant had thrown himself on the ground and was kicking and screaming in a tantrum.



David

 2008/1/22 16:41Profile





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