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 Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends


[b]Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends[/b]


JACKSON, Tenn. (BP)--A group of 15 evangelists meeting in Jackson, Tenn., Jan. 7-8 said they have concerns about the growth of Calvinism and the rise of a Willow Creek-style of non-confrontational evangelism within Southern Baptist churches.
A LifeWay Research study released in November reported about 10 percent of Southern Baptist pastors identified themselves as Calvinists. However, 29 percent of recent SBC seminary graduates espoused Calvinist doctrine.

The study concluded that a minority of SBC churches are led by Calvinist-leaning pastors, but that number is increasing. Also, Calvinist-led churches are generally smaller in worship attendance and baptisms than non-Calvinist churches. However, the study said the baptism rates between Calvinist and non-Calvinist led churches are virtually identical. Additionally, the study found that Calvinistic recent graduates report that they conduct ...

read more: http://www.baptistpress.com/BPnews.asp?ID=27181


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/1/13 11:47Profile









 Re: Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends

I always believed that Baptists were Calvinistic. They believe in Once Saved Always Saved.

 2008/1/13 12:10
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends

Here is another good article about this topic.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--While LifeWay Research found the number of Southern Baptist pastors embracing five-point Calvinism to be relatively small, it is undeniable that the conversations on Calvinism within the Southern Baptist Convention have brought renewed interest to the theological system.

Proponents of Calvinism, or Reformed theology, view it as a healthy return to early Southern Baptist heritage. Others see Calvinism as a negative trend and fear it is threatening to take over the SBC. In its inaugural survey, LifeWay Research sought to document the prevalence -– or lack thereof –- of Calvinism within the SBC.

More Here [url=http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=23993]Article[/url]


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TJ

 2008/1/13 12:16Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
I always believed that Baptists were Calvinistic. They believe in Once Saved Always Saved.



No Calvinist would agree with you on this, we believe that those whom God ha elected will persevere in the faith, because of God's working in them to will and do His good pleasure. But a decision, or aisle walking does not mean someone is saved. 8-)


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patrick heaviside

 2008/1/13 12:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I always believed that Baptists were Calvinistic. They believe in Once Saved Always Saved.



Compliments, that is the status quo comment for many who claim they are Calvinists...OSAS.

However there are many Bible Believing Christians who do believe in our eternal security who do not believe in or promote Calvinism.

AND when taking someone who claims they are a Calvinist simply on this OSAS understanding, and then explain the distorted TULIP, they say...OH NO, I don't believe that at all.

The Doctrine is dangerous. One can have and believe in their Eternal Security through scripture alone...the Doctrines of Christ.

Calvinism is Reformed Theology...reformed Catholicism....and many Calvinists still have a carry over of some of Catholicism.

The Doctrines of Jesus Christ need no reforming...never have and never will.

Also, no two Calvinists are exactly alike or that doctrine within different denominations.

A Baptist Calvinist is not the same as a Presbyterian Calvinist.

That's why it is extremely difficult witnessing to them, if you assume they all believe the same.

Love in Christ
Katy

 2008/1/13 13:42
frazier72
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Joined: 2007/9/17
Posts: 31


 Re: Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends

Read Geisler's book Chosen but Free. Actually shows the sides of both HYPER CALVINIST, HYPER ARMINIAM, and the classificatons of moderate's in both views. He explains the only difference between the moderate Calvinist and moderate Arminiate is the belief in OSAS, other than that they are very close. By his definition I probably consider myself a moderate Calvinist, because I disagree with the Hyper Calvanist belief of Election, Gifts of the Spirit have ceased, and that man does not have Free Will. It is actually a very good read, and he shows all the verses that each side uses to defend their position, and gives detailed expalinations from both veiws. Geisler is tremndous in Theology and Apologetics.

 2008/1/13 13:59Profile
roaringlamb
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Read Geisler's book Chosen but Free



Better yet, read Geisler's book and then "The Potter's Freedom" by James White, and see which one stays truest to Scripture alone, and which one actually takes time to exegete the passages, and show the meanings of words used.

Truly a challenge anyone could take :-D


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patrick heaviside

 2008/1/13 14:11Profile
intrcssr83
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Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 246
Logan City, Queensland, Australia

 Re: Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends

Quote:
by sermonindex on 2008/1/14 2:47:28


Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends

JACKSON, Tenn. (BP)--A group of 15 evangelists meeting in Jackson, Tenn., Jan. 7-8 said they have concerns about the growth of Calvinism and the rise of a Willow Creek-style of non-confrontational evangelism within Southern Baptist churches.
A LifeWay Research study released in November reported about 10 percent of Southern Baptist pastors identified themselves as Calvinists. However, 29 percent of recent SBC seminary graduates espoused Calvinist doctrine.



The seeker-friendly model is completely antithetical to reformed theology.

If Total Depravity is realised by the church, practical application would be that a lot of emphasis will be on prayer, because it is acknowledged that only God can convert the soul. In fact, when everyone prays for the salvation of another and that God will soften the heart of the non-believer, he is being calvinistic that very moment even if he does not realise it. because in so doing, he recognises God's sovereignity in salvation and that only God can convert and draw the soul to him. The Calvinistic church understands that their prayers is one of the the means that God is using to bring about the salvation of the lost (the ends) The Arminian believes that man can reject God's will and therefore, prayer becomes useless since God does not infringe on man's will.

Perservance of saints which would mean that those who appear to fall away are obviously not saved in the first place. The church who believes in this fifth point of TULIP would focus less of its resources trying to keep lukewarm members within the church (lest they fall away from an Arminian view), but will focus more on discipling true converts and reaching out to the lost. Leaders are a precious commodity in any organisation. The church included. Yet most of the resources are spent trying to retain false converts.

Secondly, it will also affect the way the church is run. if the church starts with an Arminian mentality whereby the saved can be lost, then the church will attempt to be seeker-friendly as a means to retain these people. A Calvinistic church would not do the same. The Calvinist church practices church discipline because they recognise that if a true Christian is living in sin for a period of time, he will turn to God following discipline. If he is a false convert, he will leave the church and not falsely console himself that he is saved when he isn't. He is not "innoculated to the gospel" message of repentance in the future because he is well aware that he is not saved in the first place. His identify as a false convert is made plain for him to see.

The Arminian seeker-friendly church will not practise church discipline because it might turn the true believer away from God and the believer might lose his salvation. The Calvinist church understand that the elect WILL stay in the church, and that Godly disciple WILL correct and refine the church (not destroy it). Godly discipline edifies the church as well as the individual. The implication is that that the focus of the local congregation is Christ centred; the focus is primary on fellowship of saints and worship of God.

A calvinistic understanding on soteriology would also interpret the parables such that they are recognised as speaking of false converts within the church, of whom the false will be exposed on the day of judgement. As a church, the calvinistic one would be alert towards the wheat among the tares, understanding that there are false converts within its fold. The Arminian church would typically view the parables as refering to two groups of believers who are both saved, but one is carnal and one is spirit-filled; church discipline is not practised. In application, the calvinistic church will not allow those of questionable character to serve in certain ministry because they may well be false converts. The Arminian church would not mind if that keeps them faithfully coming to church.

The Calvinist church's focus will not be on following up worldly people within the church, but will instead focus their efforts on discipling true converts so as to develop leaders who are strong and biblical in their thinking. I'm not saying that reaching out to questionable converts is not needed. I am saying that the focus would be different.

When the church is Calvinistic in thinking, its focus on evangelism will be one that uses the law to demostrate the depravity of man. The sinful man is shown to be depraved and repentance is needed to come to God. The Arminian would usually coax the believer to just believe in Christ, attend church regularly and then grow in faith along the way.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2zvqQ1w-Os]Albert Mohler and RC Sproul on the Seeker-Sensitive Movement[/url]


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Benjamin Valentine

 2008/1/13 16:32Profile
iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Evangelists lament Calvinism, SBC trends

I think this quote from the article has a lot to say:

"Southern Baptists neglected serious Christian education from the early 1960s, and that's when all the trouble started. From discipleship training we went to the amorphous youth groups, whose only real good was to keep kids happy until they graduated from high school and graduated from church. Now, you have a generation [of college students] who have come along and want something deeper and they have latched onto Calvinism."

As a SBC member myself I've noticed a trend towards Calvanism in my own church. On one hand I understand it intelectually, but on another I dislike that it seems to have quenched some of the fire for Evangelism.


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Ian Smith

 2008/1/13 21:07Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

The Lord told His followers to wait in Jerusalem, untill they were endued with power from on high.


Not from books.


Not from theological arguments or doctrinal positions.

But power, from on High.


Holy men of God preached the Gospel with the Holy Spirit sent down from above. And they didn't hide behind a box while they did it.


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/13 22:25Profile





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