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 Re: Bush launches key Mid-East tour to last ONE WEEK


Hi Diane, :-)

I don't recognise many high profile North Americans, (and I don't need to know about Rob Bell, I don't think), but what are

Quote:
the NOOMA videos

please?

You also said
Quote:
In the midst of that tortuous affair, I popped in on SI, only to hear yet again a brother (MC) insisting that the Bible is the only reliable absolute objective truth. While I couldn’t agree more, my mind has been preoccupied with the miserable fallibility of its interpreters. I dare not exclude myself from the throng. For there is that sinister fiber within that finds glee in asserting our “more rightness” over the one we view as less enlightened. This is not the path to revival.

May God revive our consciousness of guilt before him.

Do you feel that 'guilt' - or an acknowledgement of sin in the terms of 1 John 1:8, is about the only way for us to verify [u]to ourselves[/u] that 'the truth' [u]is[/u] 'in us'?

Or, is there another way? Someone posted the words of Horatius Bonar this week past, comparing 'intimacy with God' (calling it 'the essence of religion'), with a knowledge of 'doctrine', and pushing the reader toward holding [i]both together[/i]. This got me to thinking about whether 'intimacy with God' can ever be verified objectively by the person being intimate with Him - an aspect of earlier discussion in this thread.

Is the answer, [i]of course not?[/i]

Or, could it be that if one is not [u]sure[/u] it is [b]God[/b] with whom one has been communing, then the whole concept of being a 'witness' falls apart? Doesn't the dynamic of effective preaching [i]depend[/i] on one's own unmovable conviction that God is utterly real?

Acts 4:13
Now when they [the religious] saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, [b]that[/b] [u]they had been with Jesus[/u].

 2008/1/20 10:50









 Re: Bush launches key Mid-East tour to last ONE WEEK



Hi Katy,

I wish to add to my earlier reply on p9, to this your question.

Quote:
What would you say to all those who have had visions of seeing The Virgin Mary?

I said:
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I do not believe any of them are from God.

I said that because of the following scriptures in which God's will is unmistakable. It is important to note that the earthly status of the person dabbling in the occult does not make it ok. If anything, it sets an example of sin by which others may feel mistakenly justified in following.

We are blessed nowadays to be able to come to Christ with repentant hearts, to be forgiven and released from the bondages of these sinful practices.

[color=0000FF]1 Samuel 28:7
Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, [i]there is[/i] a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor [/color]

For those who don't know the Bible [u]is against every seeking of communication with the spirits of the dead[/u], please note that Saul, at the time, had been king, charged with the spiritual leadership of the nation for a season. [b]The action which he sought was forbidden by the Law which he was supposed to be upholding[/b].

[color=0000FF]Leviticus 19:31
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to [u]be defiled by them[/u]: I [i]am[/i] the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6
And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 20:27
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [i]shall be[/i] upon them.


Deuteronomy 18
9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you [i]any one[/i] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [i]or[/i] that useth divination, [i]or[/i] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12 [u]For all that do these things [i]are[/i] an [b]abomination[/b] unto the LORD[/u]: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so [i]to do[/i].
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;[/color]



contd.

 2008/1/20 11:43









 Re:


contd.


The last verse above, is picked up by both Peter in Acts 3:22 - 24 and Stephen in Acts 7, both referring to Jesus Christ as 'that Prophet' whom those who would not hear, would eventually be destroyed.

These verses all agree to tell us that [u]God Himself speaks with His people[/u] - and never through some other spirit communicating with a human mediator.

[color=0000FF]1 Timothy 2:5
For [i]there is[/i] one God, and one mediator between God and men, [u]the man Christ Jesus[/u]; [/color]


Thus, no apparition of Mary the mother of Jesus, is validated by God's word.

Mary was an ordinary woman who was given a very special role in God's plan of salvation. But, being ordinarily human [i]only[/i], and being obedient to God, eventually she was baptised in the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost with the other disciples gathered there (Acts 2).

She is not a god, not divine and was never a member of the Godhead, as some religions lead their followers to believe.


There might be reason to suppose another spirit has impersonated her in appearances to those who claim to have seen her. [b]But scripture in no way endorses these events for the basing of faith or actions[/b].

One last quote from the Bible:

[color=0000FF]2 Corinthians 4
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, [u]we faint not[/u];
2 [u]But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty[/u], not walking in craftiness, [u]nor handling the word of God deceitfully[/u]; [b]but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience[/b] [u]in the sight of God[/u].
3 But [b]if[/b] our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [i]give[/i] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


2 Corinthians 11
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [i]you as[/i] a chaste virgin [b]to Christ[/b].
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is [u]in Christ[/u].
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [i]if[/i] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [i]him[/i].
5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
6 But though [i]I be[/i] rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such [i]are[/i] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore [i]it is[/i] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; [u]whose end shall be according to [b]their[/b] works[/u].[/color]


See also Galatians 5 in Paul's list of the [u]sins of the flesh[/u]: v 20 'witchcraft' or 'sorcery' (depending on which translation is read).

 2008/1/20 11:45
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: swan song

Dorcas, Knowledge about NOOMA is not necessary in order to follow my thoughts. I should have left it out. In fact, I should have known better, in view of our tendency to delve into discussion about people and organizations - and drift from the concepts at hand – or what God may be saying to us about ourselves.

Quote:
Do you feel that 'guilt' - or an acknowledgement of sin in the terms of 1 John 1:8, is about the only way for us to verify to ourselves that 'the truth' is 'in us'?


This is not really were my thoughts were leading me. Guilt, like pain makes us aware that something is not okay. We are not right with God. It aught to lead us towards repentance, if we let it. Otherwise we just try to fool ourselves – maybe by merrily spinning our own webs – that is - till we find ourselves hopelessly entangled in it. I wonder if that could at times explain forum discussions that go nowhere and just get all knotted up. I’ve been entangled in these webs myself – maybe of my own making. Actually, I sense that it is time to withdraw from SI. I must refrain from posting anymore for the time being. Perhaps I need to free myself to let God shape me and refine me as he sees fit.

May God continue to work in the lives of our SI folk. Without a doubt, each person is precious in his sight.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2008/1/20 16:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
For those who don't know the Bible is against every seeking of communication with the spirits of the dead, please note that Saul, at the time, had been king, charged with the spiritual leadership of the nation for a season. The action which he sought was forbidden by the Law which he was supposed to be upholding.



Dorcas, I know this and even brought to your attention after a debate with Psalms 1 and you stating you believed we have the gift of raising people from the dead, and how psalms 1 wanted to know and have more information on teh subject.

You so sided with Psalms 1 against me on that thread I was shocked.


I'm thrilled after I PM'd you my concerns you do see how dangerous that discussion was.

Anyone today, like Benny Hinn or the likes who wants to claim they raised someone from the dead is dabbling in witchcraft. Because to do so, one would certainly have to summons the spirit of that dead person to enter back into their decayed body.

Praise God Dorcas you can see the truth in this.

Love Katy


 2008/1/20 16:30









 Re:

[i]"The phrase "Swan song" is a reference to an ancient belief that the Mute Swan (Cygnus olor) is completely mute during it's lifetime, except for singing a single, heartbreakingly beautiful song just before it dies."[/i]

No doubt, each person [b]is[/b] precious in His sight. And as Chip would advise - [i]as we die to ourselves[/i] - they become ever more precious to us. "Let this mind be in you ...."

right?

 2008/1/20 16:47









 Re: Bush launches key Mid-East tour to last ONE WEEK



Hi Katy,

Thanks for your reply. I'm glad you agree that the harbouring of a familiar spirit is sin, and the calling up of spirits is also sin. Although scripture gives us to believe the witch of Endor successfully called up Samuel (1 Sam 28:7 on), God is thoroughly against anyone tinkering with these things.

However, when I 'sided' with David, this is not what we were talking about. We were considering the command [u]of Jesus[/u] to 'raise the dead' (Matt 10:8), and there is plenty of scriptural precedent for it, as well as testimony from the historic church.

John 11:42 - 45 is probably the most unusual of all the biblical examples, in that Lazarus had been dead four days. But, Jesus said it was for the glory of God. When I read that story, I'm reminded of how intimately He worked together with His Father, and exhorted us to the same, in John 17.

Here are other scriptures which would support any saint whom the Holy Spirit burdened with this exercise of faith.

[color=0000FF]2 Kings 4
28 Then she said, Did I desire a son of my lord? did I not say, Do not deceive me?
29 Then he said to Gehazi, Gird up thy loins, and take my staff in thine hand, and go thy way: if thou meet any man, salute him not; and if any salute thee, answer him not again: and lay my staff upon the face of the child.
30 And the mother of the child said, [i]As[/i] the LORD liveth, and [as] thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And he arose, and followed her.
31 And Gehazi passed on before them, and laid the staff upon the face of the child; but [i]there was[/i] neither voice, nor hearing. Wherefore he went again to meet him, and told him, saying, The child is not awaked.
32 And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, [i]and[/i] laid upon his bed.
33 He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD.
34 And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and he stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
35 Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
36 And he called Gehazi, and said, Call this Shunammite. So he called her. And when she was come in unto him, he said, Take up thy son.
37 Then she went in, and fell at his feet, and bowed herself to the ground, and took up her son, and went out.[/color]

(This is also reported in 2 Kings 8.)

[color=0000FF]Luke 7
12 Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city [Nain], behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
13 And when the Lord saw her, [u]he had compassion on her[/u], and said unto her, 'Weep not'.
14 And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare [i]him[/i] stood still. And he said, 'Young man, I say unto thee, Arise'.
15 And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.
16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, 'That a great prophet is risen up among us'; and, 'That God hath visited his people'.

Acts 9
39 Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them.
40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning [i]him[/i] to the body said, 'Tabitha, arise'. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
41 And he gave her [i]his[/i] hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive. [/color]


Just for the record, I don't believe there is a 'gift' of raising the dead. Nevertheless, it has been given to some to be used in this way, and if God gives the necessary faith in the situation, I believe one should trust Him to do the work, for undoubtedly, His is able and His compassion may desire it.


[color=0000FF]Acts 26:8
Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?[/color]

 2008/1/20 17:50
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

WOW!


David

 2008/1/20 18:24Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Anyone today, like Benny Hinn or the likes who wants to claim they raised someone from the dead is dabbling in witchcraft. Because to do so, one would certainly have to summons the spirit of that dead person to enter back into their decayed body.
Love Katy



Now I ask this in a pure sincere manner because all the goings on here lately, some might think I am being sarcastic or something but this is not the case, what if maybe the person just died like an hour ago would it still be impossible for us to ask the Father in Faith through Prayer to bring this person back to life, could this person be brought back to life?


_________________
Bill

 2008/1/20 18:36Profile









 Re: Bush launches key Mid-East tour to last ONE WEEK



Hello Diane,

Or should I say goodbye?

Quote:
Actually, I sense that it is time to withdraw from SI. I must refrain from posting anymore for the time being. Perhaps I need to free myself to let God shape me and refine me as he sees fit.

May God continue to work in the lives of our SI folk. Without a doubt, each person is precious in his sight.

Diane

Will you really stay away this time? :-o

I really can't get my head around that possibility!

No lure.... you don't have to reply if you're seriously decided.

May the Lord give you strength for all you must fulfill in His will. :-D

 2008/1/20 18:39





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