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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Coming to grips


You are speaking my mind ... in many places. It is difficult to break this self imposed silence but I concur and think you have touched on the essence that even this post has it's ties to.

Do want to inject that what is going on with our brothers is however less a continuing ... assault on them as it may just be a process of working through the accounting of it all, had in mind something on the order of a debriefing if you will, not a dissecting. To bring some fairness to all of it, it has been a very long ... expression covering a lot of writing and defending so on and so forth in regards to their specifics of what is now past and finished. To bring the measure of sorting through it all that we have I think is both helpful and is bringing out a lot of very good understanding. To look at it broadly, really there hasn't been a hammering away at the specifics but far more the whole enchilada of the construct. We have gone out of our way here to express our love and concern, even our prayers for these brothers as they are indeed, it is this that has made the whole thing very difficult in one aspect.

On the one hand I can see the level of coming to their defense as one of true concern for the present state and all this as just too much beating of a dead horse. On the other and dare I include yourself MC, Clint, myself, others ... A concern for all this to just become so much smoothing over, forgive, forget and move on. There is that element but again I propose we have broadened the scope significantly and this here is precisely my thought and the even the quick amen earlier to what was post in regards to "Being ready for anything".

Absolutely MC, this is the great nagging issue of so much, this preoccupation with future events. For the life of me, and maybe I do need to go diligently searching to find it, but sometime last year before Adrian Rodgers left the bounds of this madness and arrived truly home had heard a message based around;

Ecc 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Ecc 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

There is a great problem with this in that I cannot recall the exact verse and those above were only part of them. The essence was that the future belongs to God Himself and for the greater and greatest part He is not telling us. That was the very gist of the message. I know that does not sit well with ... let me use this accident I just happened on while searching ...

From the MKJV version extant; [i]Isa 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst of it, and I will destroy its wisdom. And they shall seek to idols, and to the enchanters, and to the mediums, and to the future-tellers.[/i] Notice, [i]future-tellers[/i])

I don't want to make anything more of it than just a notice. It just to stress the same point MC is after here. We do need to come to grips with this and pray that what is attempting to be forwarded here by some of us is just this essence of preoccupation with what is hidden from us and rightfully so ...

[i]And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and [u]hath determined the times before appointed[/u], and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.[/i] Act 17:26-28

Please allow how much is not being said here. To return it to what Kire posted about being ready and that, [i]anything[/i] ... If there is a prophetic 'word' to be adhered to it is certainly that in this day we are living in.

If I haven't before, will now admit that even up till the last moment there was still a sort of hesitating over what both our brothers had 'prophesied', I do mean 12/31/07, that the [i]possibility[/i] existed that some event could have transpired, some terrible terrorist attack ... who knows. Though I may have intellectually and even spiritually 'doubted' it ... do you see the point MC is making? It is insidious, it creeps down into the thinking one way or another. Why? Because as much as I felt that all this was so much ... call it what you may, and the level of defending and so forth that preceded it chiseled off the credibility amongst other things ... Still, they are my brothers, perhaps [i]I am off[/i] went the thinking underneath, "you never know". It is all very subtle. The hesitation wasn't in regards to saving face, was quite wiling to just go ahead anyway and start replying ahead of time of "D-Day" but hoping we all can see that this little catch isn't the point at all. The point is that it is like hedging a bet, if I go 'before' and state "this is not going to happen" while I hold a catch in my thoughts I am both presumptuous and lying, I am jumping the gun, hedging my bet that I am right. And if I am right it is a sigh of relief that I wasn't proven wrong ... whew, guessed good on that one. Trust me, I was well into betting on football, basketball, baseball for a time some years ago. I don't think the analogy is too far afield to be applied here at all. Rather than go on with this as to what if I am wrong or was wrong ... frankly it is much the same thing, I am concerned not at all over it perception wise, personally. It just seems to me that what we have here with so much of this and as MC has so well articulated is very much of the same elements, hedging bets, gambling with things we have no business with, reading into and reading out of scripture things that foster either our imaginations or the short circuited aspects of our combined spirituality and fallen imaginative, heads. It goes towards as much conspiracy 'theory' as it does to whatever coming persecution may or may not be 'at hand'. It is not a wholesale dismissal but it is also not a un-Berean inability, how truly important is Paul's admonishen there. We need to be people of fact's and honesty when we have them and just as honest when they are in the realm of perhaps.

Anything is possible, not everything is imminent, much may not be. We just do not know until it is more pronounced. I think KP's original assessment is dead on and ironically it may be greatly overlooked, we are not ready perhaps because we can become preoccupied with tomorrow and 'what's coming' rather than being prepared to meet with the Lord of Glory in our very next breath.

Mike Balog

 2008/1/5 13:26Profile

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


Anything is possible, not everything is imminent, much may not be. We just do not know until it is more pronounced. I think KP's original assessment is dead on and ironically it may be greatly overlooked, we are not ready perhaps because we can become preoccupied with tomorrow and 'what's coming' rather than being prepared to meet with the Lord of Glory in our very next breath.


Is it possible we are not paying enough attention to the one who said,

Matthew 24:25
Behold, I have told you before.

He told us before so we would not be found as,

Matthew 24:50-51
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, [51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This is after,

Matthew 24:21-22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The servant was still caught up with the cares of this world, why? He did not take heed to the words of Christ.
Matthew 24:25
Behold, I have told you before.

It is The Lord Jesus Christ who tells us to,

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

"Behold, I have told you before."

Yes we must be ready, 'right now' for anything;
but the reason we watch, is because He, Christ our Lord has told us to do so.

Will we trust Him? If we do, we will be ready for anything.

 2008/1/5 20:00Profile

Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA


If persecution, or famine, or whatever does come, we can't afford to be led by these frantic prophets (so they say) who will only have even more speculation to offer the church. Instead, we will need leaders whose inner man is rooted not in CNN, but in disciplined and faithful knowledge of Scripture.

Amen and AMEN!

I’ve followed several SI threads in the last few months and…well…this really says it all folks.

Excellent word brother MC.


 2008/1/5 20:23Profile

Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re: silence

I too thought I would just let it rest for a while but had to add my two cents on this thread :-(

Mike B said: “…how truly important is Paul's admonishen there. We need to be people of fact's and honesty when we have them and just as honest when they are in the realm of perhaps.

Anything is possible, not everything is imminent, much may not be. We just do not know until it is more pronounced. I think KP's original assessment is dead on and ironically it may be greatly overlooked, we are not ready perhaps because we can become preoccupied with tomorrow and 'what's coming' rather than being prepared to meet with the Lord of Glory in our very next breath.”

The point is well taken regarding the lack of preparation for suffering in this country, especially in comparison to those very well documented cases in [i]Voice of the Martyrs[/i] and elsewhere. There is so much Lack of total commitment that made Daniel and his companions able and willing to say “we know our God… nevertheless”. Sadly there is too much of what Vance Havner said in one of his messages, in this country, of the lack of the sense of the “firstness” of God in all things. There is the attitude of “I will but first…” and jobs, houses, lands, recreation, churchianity and a whole host of things are priority and obedience is arbitrary. I cannot see a whole lot of folk in this country willingly laying down their lives before taking a mark, when many if not most will not forego a $2 raise for Christ.

As far as “conspiracy theories”, there has been a conspiracy from the beginning that has never changed agendas. The agenda is to cast doubt upon the Word of God, then cause confusion regarding the Word of God, to reinterpret the Word of God until it is flatly denied, and then sale the illusion that it will be o.k. to totally disobey the Word of God. And Psalm 2 has laid out how that conspiracy has been transferred to “kings and rulers” through all these centuries, and in turn to the “people”. We know that there is a plot to destroy Israel and a plot to destroy the church. Just exactly when all restraints are removed and like in the days of Ahab, God turns a final ruler over to “believe the lie” and an apostate church into total delusion, is known only to God. Edit to insert: the conspiracies will continue until: 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,

That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.

His dominion is an everlasting dominion,

Which shall not pass away,

And His kingdom the one

Which shall not be destroyed.

It is certainly scriptural to be discerning of the times: 1 Chronicles 12:32 (KJV) 32And of the children of Issachar, which were men that had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do; the heads of them were two hundred; and all their brethren were at their commandment.
Matthew 16:2 - 3 (NKJV) 2He answered and said to them, [color=FF3300] “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; 3and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.[/color]

But that discernment is not speculation but verity. There are things we can know beyond a shadow of doubt prophesied in the Word of God and being fulfilled around us. For example we can SEE natural Israel being re-gathered; we can see Jerusalem becoming a “cup of trembling” to the whole world, we can see the proliferation of false doctrine, the appetite for ear-tickling myths rather than truth’ alongside of a pure bride being prepared by persecutions (especially outside America). We can see the increasing dominance of antichristian religion and politics world-wide and their desire to install a false messiah over all the earth. We can see the increase in knowledge prophesied by Daniel which due to the inventions of the last few decades have made us “one world” in a way totally unprecedented since the days of Rome where “all roads led to Rome” very literally. We can see the increased rebellion against the laws of God, “lawlessness” that is indeed becoming THE entrenched universal law… the casting aside the laws of God and literally making good evil and evil good on an international scale.

These are just a few of the very factual and literal happenings in our time…

We certainly do not want to fall into the trap of those during the times of Ezekiel when God spoke through him saying:
Ezekiel 12:27 - 28 (NKJV) 27“Son of man, look, the house of Israel is saying, ‘The vision that he sees is for many days from now, and he prophesies of times far off.’ 28Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “None of My words will be postponed any more, but the word which I speak will be done,” says the Lord GOD.’”

But… as Brother Keith Daniels pointed out in a message regarding David and Goliath, Goliath became THE OBJECT between Israel and their God. They could only see how big Goliath was, but David could only see how little Goliath was upside God. In fact that was the same problem with their ancestors and Joshua and Caleb come to think of it. Just as surely as putting our hands in front of us, as small as they are, can shield the light of the sun from our eyes, focusing upon any object, whether it is prophecy, a single doctrine, or even a false doctrine for that matter, the object becomes bigger than the Son.

We also know what the Lord said to the early church: Acts 1:7 - 8 (NKJV) 7And He said to them,[color=FF3300]“It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”[/color]

There is KNOWLEDGE that belongs to God and RESPONSIBILITY that belongs to us.

The scripture that comes to mind in relation to all of this is what the Lord said in Luke 13 regarding “current events” of that day…. We all die, we do not all have to perish. It is just our nature to get bent all out of shape over the sensational news (and obviously was in the time of Christ hence His question to that audience. As Mike B. has pointed out, every day and any day can be “our” day to face “anything” from what is called “natural disasters” to a fatal disease, to a wreck on the highway.

I remember my reaction after 9/11 and my response to it at my local church. The fact is that far more people perish around us on a daily basis in car wrecks, homicides or whatever else, than perished on 9/11 or than the number of our soldiers that have died in Iraq. It is just that when so many die in one place at one time we are jolted into seeing the fact that we are indeed mortals that can die at any moment. But after the initial shock of such an event we so easily get back to the business of believing the illusion “you shall not surely die” and go on with our complacency.

Wouldn’t it be far more pleasing to God if we spent our time and energy in the DAILY perishing rather than the MAYBE ONE DAY SOON perishing? The fact is that not one of those around us is going to escape death and judgment ought to be of greater concern than when and how they are going to die. Wouldn’t it be far more pleasing to God and far more logical also to spend our time on what we Know is happening to our friends, family and neighbors NOW, than a mysterious WHEN? Doesn’t the eternal word say “Today is the day of salvation”? And did not the Savior say, “Work for the night is coming when no man can work…”?


Clint Thornton

 2008/1/6 8:02Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Future cast

[i]"The great falling-away from faith could be worst here in [America] because people are absolutely not prepared to face suffering or persecution -- because we cannot imagine a gospel with the cross and the suffering in it," says Yohannan. "Yet the Bible teaches very strong about it. So as the Word of God says: He who has ears, let him hear."[/i]

[i]The ministry leader is convinced that prosperity has caused many Christians in America to focus on material possessions instead of surrendering all to Christ. The result, he says, is that American Christians have become "very naïve" in thinking that real persecution will never come their way.

"These are warning signs," he exclaims. "God is telling us [that] we need to prepare our lives. And preachers going around saying that revival is coming, and everything is okay, and all these things? I think that people are [being] set up for huge disaster and denying their faith when they face problems."[/i]

Am finding a great deal of ... symmetry around many of the posts spanning some time now. To take out from what KP is stating and coming from him, well there is a great deal to be said right there ...

[i]we cannot imagine a gospel with the cross and the suffering in it[/i]

[i]is convinced that prosperity has caused many Christians in America to focus on material possessions instead of surrendering all to Christ.[/i]

[i]revival is coming, and everything is okay[/i]

If there was some sort of catch all phrase to all of this it seems to be just taking things for granted. I find a tension in most all things, a healthy fear verses a paranoia. Gratitude and thankfulness in the realm of omissions, I mean by that [i]all the things that did not come to pass[/i], yesterday, this morning. Simple things, the 'staples', food ... shelter ... clothing. Hot water, electricity, the computer works again today and am able to both absorb and share, grapple with things and learn from all the Brethren. Indeed we are already blessed beyond belief. Rather than taking large stock and notice of this, the penchant as KP points out in so many areas is for [i]more[/i], more ... things?

The cross and suffering. Hmm, yes, what then? What now? Am just truly thinking out loud here. Divorce for instance amongst 'Christians', the sound of it alone so oxymoronic, due primarily to little to no suffering, suffering of opinion at the expense of overcoming love, patience ... understanding and an understanding that finds humility in not exerting one's 'rights'. The cross...

Suffering the imagination to the test of God's word. Suffering opinion to it. Suffering the challenge of knowledge that is even derived from it and reassessing, reconsidering, have I got this wrong? Suffering the emotions and the compulsions, the defenses, the penchant to 'win' over the desire of coming to the knowledge of the truth, to be 'of the same mind' that the Lord has high up on [i]His[/i] desire for us? The cross there ...

It just goes on to so many things and if anything have been out to the woodshed of late and taught a few things. It is and if I am not too presumptuous was a very painful and ... excruciating spiritual discipline. It is not the first nor the last, just recent enough to have something to share I guess. It is a very good thing, the cross, suffering, it is God's way, [i]those He loves He ...[/i]. It is what was needed and dare I say even welcomed, so much so that I feared even asking prayer and to be honest it was more a fear that the prayers would be for a deliverance rather than what despite the pain of it all was a plea for the furnace to be turned up seven times hotter. I knew it was needed. Lest that get taken all apart into extremes am no fan of pain or needless suffering of anyone or anything, myself included. But I do not want to get all this too mixed up, am speaking of inward things that defy too much explanation, that ... far surpass emotion, it is just a deeper more penetrating work, doubt that many here have not experienced it, it has much of the elements that Carter Collin spoke of the message about "Show me my wretchedness" or "not" if you catch his meaning there.

So there is all that and yet ... I find we have to jump from this realm to another and look at what someone of the stature of KP Yohannan is speaking of, who [i]knows[/i] of these things experientially, of those countries so dislike our own with the little opposition we truly have. Sure it's building, would suspect and go right alongside a great deal of what might be supposed, less 'prophetic' I think than so well expressed in all that Clint has just written here. The weather is obvious enough. I do fear a launching off into intellectual and might as well just call it the arm-chair quarter backing style of pontificating about things we just do not understand nor can we but with our ... imaginations. We are forced to use them in lieu of present pain and circumstance, true persecution. I find it very humbling indeed to just look upon it all and wonder, try and feel just the slightest prick of conscience, what must this truly be like to be standing in their shoes? Then I also must take my personal, interior suffering and shove it up alongside all this and say ... "what of it?" Certainly it pales even if the suffering aspect is no less painful from my perspective. The facts seem to suggest that they do indeed need to be understood in a lesser quality and quantity.

That old adage about an opinion being at the mercy of experience, certainly is true. Have remarked that I am finding more and more that the scriptures express things that [u]are[/u] by way of finding them out in experience over the realm of just 'living up to them', which we are certainly admonished ... I guess I just want to say, we find them to be so, when we do find them to be so ... :-?

Isn't that 'prophetic' in itself? That these things are so and really it is a matter of just ... being subject to them, experiencing them and being able or really having nothing other than to say, 'It is so, I have myself gone through this?".

Expectations. That word looms large over all these things. What to expect, what fuels our expectations our future considerations. To be prepared by way of 'ready for anything' or ready for the latest theory of how things will play out? There might be truth in them, but are they so? I find there is much fear in so much of speculation, much anxiety, worry, a displaced concern, it's out in front, just alluding our grasp ... it sounds like "What if? What if? What if?". And yet we have all the admonishens against these things throughout scripture, to [i]not do them[/i] and yet we have ... 'prophets' telling us otherwise, "No, this is coming and that is coming ..." The inference and underlying is either one of 'expect great ... blessings' or prepare for devastation.

But now I must find myself returning back to even KP's experiential thought as it applies to 'us' or USa if you will. Is he correct? Should I be overtly concerned? Is it indeed 'coming'?

Clint was right here, drawing out some of the very scriptures to our understanding. Can't recall now if it was suggested or not but [i]watch and pray[/i] came to mind yesterday. Something very succinct in that. Maybe, rather than attempting to try and draw all this to some conclusive end it is better to just leave it out there unfinished, just food for thought, am still thinking on it much in every way, this is just kind of a allowing of reading my mind here I guess.

But the notice mentioned about seeing so many things over the past few weeks and months ... I have expectations, I hope we all do. I just want them to be real and realistic, honesty and forthright, becoming of what we are, in spirit and in truth. There is almost a setting aside of all this just long enough to look at another aspect... Will we be ready? Maybe that hasn't really been stressed enough. Come what may and to leap over to the speculative for a moment, who will stand in the evil day? Who will be relied on when all around us does\if it goes to pieces. Shouldn't it be us, of all people? Calm, cool and collected in the face of .. chaos? Look at the Lord, that is one of the most striking things I have ever grappled with and Oswald Chamber I believe was masterful at drawing great attention to this. How He was never 'moved' out of position from His disposition. I am becoming very convinced this is our great need, to have our disposition altered to His, in [i]all[/i] things. That is the greatness of SermoinIndex and I am finally through apologizing for it. This place is a wonder beyond wonders if it is just looked at in itself. So much thought [i]and experience[/i]. These men, these brothers that have gone before have so much to teach us, to speak to us, to draw us back to foundational spiritual truths. Think of it, what draws us, what draws any one of you here? There are things that have happened experientially on a continuing basis all due to this truly 'small thing' that the Lord I am convinced has developed in and out of it. The world does not understand, many Christians do not I understand, shoot even I do not understand it all. But I have seen it and have partaken in it, watched it develop and grow within it's confines, watched the saints change before my very eyes and even recently was blessed beyond measure to go and 'meet' with those who I have 'known' from eternity past, there is no other succinct way of putting it. It boggles the mind, but none of it was surprising, there are things that just defy proper explanation, it is a truly spiritual understanding. There are things that just cut straight through words and opinion and conjecture.

There are great hearts here, great as a deceitful heart can be, that is the great catch in all this prophetic utterance I believe, we just do not know our own deceptions well enough and will never know the capable depths, but at least enough to say to ourselves, 'perhaps I should hold my peace here' I may well still have not considered ______. That is what goes on here by and large, putting things, putting ourselves to the test, to the test of scripture, to the test of each other. Forget the cliché's enough to just take all these things in and I think you will find that there is a desire to understand underneath all the other unfortunate compulsions and misunderstandings, the camp mind divisions that we are so preprogrammed into, everything being 'either\or', this or that, the baby with the bath water, so much for clichés' ...

More to the point. The post on reading your bibles. Is this not very much important? Right now. However and in whatever way we decide to go about it, I am intrigued and challenged and must admit that I have sacrificed it and gone off to a great more ... doodling around in it than I should. Whole books of the scriptures stand out large and have been something I recognized as very important, reading them through, all the way through. I don't want to go off on that here too much but it does seem that maybe we have neglected this and have become somewhat bound up in all the ancillary aspects of what is going on around us circumstantially, drawing off our attention ... and maybe much of the preoccupation with the future is part and parcel? Am just asking the question here, it is a note to self to borrow from MC.

But how else and what better way to get about doing something towards our readiness, come what may, come what may not. What an answer to the suggestion of a 'motto' for the year or even a trumping of a verse for the year? I must be truly honest, I don't like these ideas really and forgive me for saying so, but having a catch phrase for the year leaves me squirming a bit, the tendency is to forget all about it come say June. What then? Besides, there seems to be enough of titling things, having great banners of a handful of words, a verse, a subset of eye grabbing things for yet another program or construct out in the realm of Christendom itself. I am sorry, it just leaves something wanting, something almost throw away-ish to coin a term, another formulaic approach, kind of a piece of Christian junk mail that either stacks up or gets thrown into the recycle bin, which I assume all are doing due to 'global warming'. ;-)

Pardon the digression not trying to be didactic, different things work for different souls I am sure. Guess it is just will we still be holding to it come September? "This is the year of ____"

Maybe or may it be said this is the year we could look back on and say, for us, this is the year we got downright serious and really read our bibles, over and over again. A different sort of resolution, a real one, one that we held each other accountable to all year long. It will have to be a disciple but if we are able and quite capable it seems of holding each others feet to the fire in regards to prophecy and rightly so ... we were able to both remember and recall all that was said and bring an accounting to it as we have been doing. How much more might we do likewise come Jan. 2009 if the Lord tarries in reading the scriptures over the course of this year? And if we absolutely must use our projections and preoccupations with the future, maybe we can project something that we all might suspect as true ... Could you imagine just what this might all do to us and to those around us just by sheer adjustment in our character and disposition, never uttering a single solitary word, just in that 'body language' of ours by having our hearts and minds our intellect, everything altered by this Book. And then when we do open our mouths, what might spring forth? Can you imagine this? To know our God better, our Lord better ... would we be better prepared, better ready? My goodness, it seems like the answers are so completely obvious that it is foolishness that we haven't really stopped to think about it ... as I write this and realize it.

I am generally finding and expecting surprises from the Lord and that is largely since divorcing the mind from what I used to expect, you know, all these preprogrammed things we set up in these melons and then attempt to fulfill by way of ... goodness, what is it? Effort? Scurrying around the book for the "Aha's", I [i]knew[/i]this was going to happen kinds of things? But it is everyday stuff, I still do it to my chagrin. Fantasy type things, those little subsets of 'This thing will play out just like this' while we tell ourselves 'See, I knew it, I knew this would happen'. So much rubbish in this contour of our make up, we less cast down evil imaginations as we do entertain them, feed them little choice nuggets of new bites and clippings from our travels. Where is [i]your[/i] God in all this, the self indicting question I find. What of His disruptions and surprises? No room for them? Still trusting on our own understanding ...? Hmmm, that prophetic business keeps coming into play doesn't it?

Well, I guess it's been a good while since I presented a ramble here, think I will quit while I am ahead, if I am ... Time to change the signature, at least it will be my own accuser.

Mike Balog

 2008/1/6 13:04Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi all,

Just a suggestion here, but for another perspective on this we could go through the book of Acts and compare what happened there with what the Lord told [b]them[/b], would happen. And also see how they responded.

Here's one example:

Matthew 24:9, Acts 7:59, 12:1-4, 28:22.

Here's another:

Matthew 24:44-45, Acts 11:19-21, 15:35, 28:30-31.


Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/6 14:04Profile

Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406

 Re: Ministry founder: U.S. Christians 'absolutely not prepared' for persecu

If the subject is being prepared, then I believe
this to be the answer.

“For me to live is Christ.”
— Philippians 1:21

The believer did not always live to Christ. He began to do so when God the Holy Spirit convinced him of sin, and when by grace he was brought to see the dying Saviour making a propitiation for his guilt. From the moment of the new and celestial birth the man begins to live to Christ. Jesus is to believers the one pearl of great price, for whom we are willing to part with all that we have. He has so completely won our love, that it beats alone for him; to his glory we would live, and in defence of his gospel we would die; he is the pattern of our life, and the model after which we would sculpture our character. Paul’s words mean more than most men think; they imply that the aim and end of his life was Christ—nay, his life itself was Jesus. In the words of an ancient saint, he did eat, and drink, and sleep eternal life. Jesus was his very breath, the soul of his soul, the heart of his heart, the life of his life. Can you say, as a professing Christian, that you live up to this idea? Can you honestly say that for you to live is Christ? Your business—are you doing it for Christ? Is it not done for self- aggrandizement and for family advantage? Do you ask, “Is that a mean reason?” For the Christian it is. He professes to live for Christ; how can he live for another object without committing a spiritual adultery? Many there are who carry out this principle in some measure; but who is there that dare say that he hath lived wholly for Christ as the apostle did? Yet, this alone is the true life of a Christian—its source, its sustenance, its fashion, its end, all gathered up in one word—Christ Jesus. Lord, accept me; I here present myself, praying to live only in thee and to thee. Let me be as the bullock which stands between the plough and the altar, to work or to be sacrificed; and let my motto be, “Ready for either.”

Spurgeon, C. H.

[size=large]"Ready for either"[/size]

 2008/1/7 9:55Profile

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