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psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 drink blood?

Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you cannot be my disciple.
Blood to the jew was forbidden.
After Jesus said this[4 times] many of his disciples walked with him no more.
Somehow innocent blood moves heaven.
It would almost seem that whatever justice comes out of this there automatically requires injustice.
[innocence pays for guilty]
They walked no more with him only at the thought of it.
Had they known the true depth of it maybe ALL would have left.
[eventually they did]
my question is,did Jesus mean what he said?


David

 2007/12/27 12:53Profile









 Re: drink blood?

We need to take into account the rest of the chapter, in context.

Especially where Jesus explains what He meant - as far as He ever does explain!

The passage gives the impression that Jesus set out deliberately to shock and drive away those who didn't mean business. Of course his listeners would have been even more shocked than most of us, because they would have been brought up knowing the ban on drinking blood.

And apparently Jesus used a different, stronger and coarser word for "eat" in the second part of the passage, meaning to eat like an animal, (munch, chew, chomp?)!

John 6:
[color=990000]60 ¶ Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 [i][b]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/b][/i][/color]

There's Jesus' explanation!

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/12/27 16:01









 Re:

Jesus likened Bread to be His body and likened Wine to be His Blood.

He broke the bread signfying that His body was broken for you and I.

The wine was to signfy His life that was to be shed for many.

Jesus said "Do this" in remembrance of me.

Do what?

Do what He said to do, offer yourselves up to be broken and pour out your life before the LORD.

This is what it means to eat and drink. The symbolism of actually eating a wafer and drinking grape juice has little meaning. It will only mean something because tradition is dictating.

Thats why many fell away, they were thinking in carnal terms, and it's only by election that the Apostles stayed. Many today still think in carnal terms in viewing the wafer and the drink.

All that Jesus spoke of BEFORE the cross were in types and shadows, because He was born under the law, because the promise had not fully come.

Paul speaks more of this in his writings to the Corinthians, to which many still take his writings like they did with Jesus, carnal.

 2007/12/27 18:09
destinysweet
Member



Joined: 2007/11/19
Posts: 159


 Re:

Jesus always 'means' what He says. I believe our difficulty lies in trying to understand Him with our natural man mind/human intellect.So many have turned aside from the reality of Christ's path because they could not fit the basic qualifications He speaks of into the system of this world..even there 'church world',especially if they met religion before they met the Spirit of the Living God..when man teaches man how to walk talk and listen to Jesus..He creates a clone of himself...when we are blessed to have been trained by God primarily, we are accustomed to asking Him to explain ,expecting Him to answer and recieveing the answer..in His timing of course.These spiritually discerned sayings must be brought into the forefront as He would teach us ..not just in the sitting there and reading the phrases...when He is ready to teach you something He will cause all of life around you/within you to resonate with the truth of His Living Word...logos..rhema..the word made fully alive,active ..not some concept that we are batting back and forth across some intellectual ping pong table...recreational perhaps..but play none the less...there are many who believe themselves surrendered..but are still standing at the controls..trying to push the river. their motives for wanting to know so much is not pure,sometimes. I wonder if the difference in how we are trained to walk with Him determines how much easier it is to trust all those questions to Him,and to simply be, being, filled like a glass waiting to be filled ...to be poured into..not much for the vessel to do but yeild and wait.

We sometimes get so much knowledge in our heads that our heads get so big we cannot get out the door to do the work of the great commission...we do not have power because we do not spend the life we have already been given on those who need it the most ..we've become too concerned with our own small circle..family,church ,work...To be poured out as He was..if you are following Jesus yet have never left all, given up all,or given to the one who asks or takes,forgiven all,taken a beating or suffered a humiliation righteously..I would seriously consider going on a walk about. All these things/sayings He will ask you at one time or another as you walk with him..If he said it He meant it ..and it is important more important that anything anyone can say ...anyone,ever ...are we worthy,willing or have these become trite and quaint sayings that once might have been possible to pull off but now would only land you in the loony bin? or the left foot of fellowship booting you out the door...I believe too many have swept these more difficult sayings into the category 'reserved for the dustbin'...'not for this era circular file'..in regards to ever having applied them,or allowed Him to apply them ...after all we can only obey and say yes Lord! as He shows us what to do..He is alot more literal than most of us cowards are willing to believe/accept...poured out as a drink offering...a living sacrifice...Broken..we are His body...broken and given to be devoured by others for their food,their bread their sustenance, their refreshing drink...Mostly we are too me me me oriented...my walk, my understanding,my wretched sin,my salvation,my calling, my ministry,even my relationship to the point of lunacy in regards to the way it needs to be or what is plumb with the mind of Christ/which is for us..we get to put this on providing us with perfect focus and sanity ...when the Spirit of the Living God is moving powerfully through your life for others...it is God we are listening to and growing by and learning from ,in constant communion with ,no seperation..and the rest flows,abundant and overflowing towards those who are in need...and also the Holy Spirit using you to pray and to intercede...Hebrews says He has perfected those whom He has sanctified with the one sacrifice..there is not a whole lot of need to be me oriented it does not cross your mind..unless He makes you deal with old wounds but even then there is the others He brings ,divinely appointed to come alongside and need what you have just been given.So evn then we do not become to me oriented..self centered.If we will recieve this and rejoice in the freedom ,the liberty of the true easy yoke of Christ, we don't have to struggle and strive to achieve our own perfection ...all the while complaining or resignedly proclaiming that we cannot achieve this until we die and go on to our reward..there is no reward there, that is not also here...He is the reward...you can have as much of Him as you desire...or rather as much as you believe ..have faith for ...I will come into him and sup with him and he with Me. I will never leave you nor forsake you...My sheep shall hear my voice..and these were given the power to become the sons of God and so we believe and so recieve the peace that passes understanding which is ours yes! it is ours..not as the world gives, that comes and goes,hinges on how we feel during whatever situation...but peace in knowing that we get to learn at our own pace according to His divine plan and timing and we are perfect right where we are in our growth and developement in accordance with His perfect plan and will because God sees us through the blood of Jesus not through our own merit...this is crucial ..we are not in control and nor would we want to be..as this is what pulls us out of harmony, out of sync...We can be in alignment with His perfect will..this is doable..my God does not tease me with impossible to attain goals or promises..Jesus does not do this...He will do it through me ,...that is why He lives in me..this is why I had to give all..and die to my old life ..so He could put my feet upon His perfect course for me.. if I could do it on my own strength what need would I have for Him? Drink in the blood and all it provides and believe He moves through you ..easy..light..those who make it more complicated are simply darkened in their understanding...too much knowledge in their heads bouncing around causing trouble for them ..they need to get out of their rooms and walk out /exercise that which they have been learning..use the gifts they have been given..get their eyes off of themselves. He tells me people are unbalanced in this way and have become constipated...the bowels of Christ the deepest and most unpleasant aspects of the kingdom..where the waste moves out what has been eaten ,digested and processed so as to get all the body needs from the balanced diet he provides and then so natually(supernaturally-naturally) yes ..what is no longer needed is discarded..eliminated..left behind as is the sin it has to move too..and it does in the healthy body...sorry if this offends..but those who become constipated like this are full of a consciousness of sin more than of the blood..and see themselves in this defeated way..like dung -colored glasses..rose colored are ok as long as they are the Rose of Sharon ..but God speaks to me of the workings of everything that I don't understand ..I don't understand how people say He does not explain Himself very well...He loves to suprise us with revelation as to what He means ...He knows we are helpless without Him,His guidance and counsel...do not they know you as Counselor Lord?...or maybe that is why they don't hear...they do not believe that they can do all things throuigh Christ who strengthens us and so they can't or that nothing is impossible with God and so for them a sinless life becomes impossible...He has given us all things pertaining to godliness..Christ in us the hope of glory... we are expected to be Jesus...this is His perfection ..Him in us is ours.Faith is the evidence,the substance of Christ hoped for..have faith that it no longer needs to be you but Christ who dwells in you... more of Him and less of us.Being continuously filled...transforming at a steady and perfect pace..in accordance with the washing of the water of His word, in His season in His way..no worries.Rejoice and pass the blood! Cheers


_________________
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

 2007/12/28 0:46Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

this verse is like an itch that i cant reach .
I cant find anywhere where blood is not forbidden except for the heathen.

Also remember the passover meal they were commanded to eat the whole animal,I suppose organs and all.
But not the blood.
pass the brains please [no pun intended] LOL

can you imagine if you were in church and the pastor said.."unless you drink my blood you cannot be a member here"?..........


David

 2007/12/28 9:51Profile
destinysweet
Member



Joined: 2007/11/19
Posts: 159


 Re:

Again it is a matter of natural religious mind vs the mind of Christ...lose your mind to find it.


_________________
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

 2007/12/28 20:06Profile









 Re:

Compliments, this really blessed and challenged me, especially:

"[i][b]Do what He said to do, offer yourselves up to be broken and pour out your life before the LORD.[/b][/i]".

I'm sure there's much more to it theologically but this is such a deep thing...Follow Him so that we are as it were "poured out" as He was.

Not of course exactly as He was, because the Cross is unique and once for all, and there's no way we can atone even for our own sins. In any case, the Lord has already done so! Yet to enter into just a little of the "fellowship of His sufferings...

Paul spoke about himself being "poured out as a drink-offering".

Misunderstanding, and taking the bread and wine as meaning literal body and blood, is, as you said, thinking in carnal terms.

Thank you

Quote:

Compliments wrote:
Jesus likened Bread to be His body and likened Wine to be His Blood.

He broke the bread signfying that His body was broken for you and I.

The wine was to signfy His life that was to be shed for many.

Jesus said "Do this" in remembrance of me.

Do what?

[b]Do what He said to do, offer yourselves up to be broken and pour out your life before the LORD.[/b]

This is what it means to eat and drink. The symbolism of actually eating a wafer and drinking grape juice has little meaning. It will only mean something because tradition is dictating.

Thats why many fell away, they were thinking in carnal terms, and it's only by election that the Apostles stayed. Many today still think in carnal terms in viewing the wafer and the drink.

All that Jesus spoke of BEFORE the cross were in types and shadows, because He was born under the law, because the promise had not fully come.

Paul speaks more of this in his writings to the Corinthians, to which many still take his writings like they did with Jesus, carnal.

 2007/12/29 15:02









 Re:

Jeanette, The LORD showed me this several years ago and the more I dwell on it the more it expands into much more than what we think. What I have written here is just the tip of the iceberg. I wrote this here in hopes that someone will think in a different vein than the traditional ideas that we have embraced.

The blood signifies life,

Quote:
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

 2007/12/29 17:00
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1113
Germany NRW

 Re: drink blood?

God has just spoken to me about these verses in John 6:53-54 today while I pondered over the fact that a number of people that I know backslid severely. This is how I interpret it:

There are many who hear read the Word of God or study and explain and even preach it. However, you only eat Jesus flesh when you take in the word of God to the degree that you digest it and it becomes part of yourself. You agree with it completely and your life becomes a living witness and example of it.

Drinking his blood means to live in forgiveness of with your brother. Just as blood circulates through the human body and keeps it alive, so does Jesus Blood circulate in the Body of Christ. Any limb that is not receive blood dies. The brother who trusts in his own godliness and withdraws himself from the forgiveness of sins is in danger of spiritual death. Forgiveness must be sincerely, specific and must envolve the people who sinned or were wronged.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Philip

 2007/12/29 18:26Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I just wanted to clarify something.

My question seems rhetorical in that of course he ment what he said but my human mind says "run that by me again"
I am not asking what he said or what did he mean.
I am asking if he ment what he said.
But we all should know he did in fact mean what he said.
This is the dillema as i see it......this concept is heretical. To drink blood.
Jesus instead of modifying his statement says "does this offend you?"
Thereby adding what seems to me to be a departure from any hope of this being a parable or analogy.
When he said"anyone having put his hand to the plow and looking back, is not worthy to be my disciple."......This is impossible to misinterpret
There has to be a parralel truth some where doesnt there?

David

 2007/12/29 21:10Profile





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