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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

We need victory over self-preservation.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/12/24 14:35Profile
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re:

I'm sorry that this had lead to a discussion on Romans 7. Whether one believes this is a pre-conversion Paul or not does not matter. I have found as many articles on either side of the issue. I've just read Piper's six part exposition on this passage and stand firm in my conviction that this is indeed the converted Paul.

The truth is that I fight sin on a daily basis. When I don't fight it, sin wins. That is the enemy I am to stand against in Galatians 6. I must "always be killing sin or it will be killing" me. I do not want to be like the Pharisee who turns his eye to heaven and says "thanks God, I'm not like that!" It is only by the grace of God that I don't find myself drunk or stoned or staring for countless hours at pornography. It is only by His grace that I can seek His heart, His face, His kingdom and His righteousness.

 2007/12/25 5:49Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Faith in the 'grace' of God.

Deut. 32:20
And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.


Ephes. 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Ephes. 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


1 Peter 1:5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Galatians 3:5-7
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Col. 1:5
For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;





 2007/12/25 9:01Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

Chris, I don't understand what you are saying.

Davy, Read my post carefully. I am not saying christians do not sin. I said christians do not PRACTICE sin. There is a difference. You have made it sound that it is o.k. that christians are in bondage to sin, saying everyone goes thru that. That is not biblical. Yes, I agree by grace we are able thru faith. Mine is about that. But, yours sound like works, looking inward instead of looking to Christ.

It is good to examine ourselves and when God shows us we sin, we know by His word we can go to Him and ask forgiveness and He will cleanse of of that sin (1john1:9). But, many christians don't have that faith or else they would not live in condemnation. Many christians when examining themselves DWELL on their sin and have this big self pity that turns into condemnation. Making your sins look so big and ugly is not holiness, it is unbelief. Too many people are too stuck on the old man forgetting that God gave us a new heart and many who live this way are those who profess to believe only by grace thru faith, but complain so much about their corrupted hearts. Where is the faith? God broke us from the law of condemnation and now we can truly experience His rest if we look to Him and not ourselves!


_________________
Lisa

 2007/12/25 10:33Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

A man sought counsel from his friends. And as he talked with them they began to argue with one another over whose counsel was the best. Soon the man was forgotten, for all that could be heard were the voices of them that argued.




The Lord Jesus said that whoever would seek to save his life would lose it. He said also that no greater love had any man, than to lay down his life for his friends.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/12/25 11:25Profile
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re:

Quote:

myfirstLove wrote:
Chris, I don't understand what you are saying.

Davy, Read my post carefully. I am not saying christians do not sin. I said christians do not PRACTICE sin. There is a difference. You have made it sound that it is o.k. that christians are in bondage to sin, saying everyone goes thru that. That is not biblical. Yes, I agree by grace we are able thru faith. Mine is about that. But, yours sound like works, looking inward instead of looking to Christ.

It is good to examine ourselves and when God shows us we sin, we know by His word we can go to Him and ask forgiveness and He will cleanse of of that sin (1john1:9). But, many christians don't have that faith or else they would not live in condemnation. Many christians when examining themselves DWELL on their sin and have this big self pity that turns into condemnation. Making your sins look so big and ugly is not holiness, it is unbelief. Too many people are too stuck on the old man forgetting that God gave us a new heart and many who live this way are those who profess to believe only by grace thru faith, but complain so much about their corrupted hearts. Where is the faith? God broke us from the law of condemnation and now we can truly experience His rest if we look to Him and not ourselves!



I'm not here to argue. This thread was started by a dear brother who was concerned about his struggles. I want to assure that brother that everyone struggles lest Paul would not of said to reckon the old man dead. The flesh still produces flesh in my life and every Christian's life. We never achieve sinless perfection in this life but we do have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. Praise God!

Our flesh, that is our natural affinity to sin does not leave us. But you are right, we should not focus on this, rather:" . . .seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God" (He. 12:1-2). Please note that we are exhorted to lay aside the sin that easily besets us.

Shall we walk in victory without fighting the battle? On either side of that question, the answer is a resounding no! We are made capable of holiness only by the work of the Holy Spirit, but that does not abdicate our responsibility to be holy. We must earnestly seek Christ. We must delight in Him alone. He has won the war, Praise His Name!

We must fight the battle with our own sin, we must " . . . run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected" (1Cor. 9:26-27, ASV). We must be keenly aware of our flesh and bring it under the control of the Holy Spirit. The running and the fighting that Paul describes is for eternal life In 1 Tim. 6:12 he says, "Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of eternal life." We fight this fight with the confidence that we have been taken hold of by Christ for that very life. He ran his race, fought his fight and endured His cross for the joy (the prize) set before him is alive and real in our hearts.

So I stand with my brother in this struggle called life. I will continue to battle sin in my life. I won't deny that I have sin that still needs to be slain. I won't whistle past the graveyard saying "everything's ok so far." I will fight with the delight in Lord that gives me strength.

I hope this clarifies the issue somewhat. I am not a defeatist. I believe that Jesus has won the victory for me or else I wouldn't have the faith to stand.

SDG,

Dave

 2007/12/25 12:46Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Hypocrites

Quote:
A man sought counsel from his friends. And as he talked with them they began to argue with one another over whose counsel was the best. Soon the man was forgotten, for all that could be heard were the voices of them that argued.



Thanks brother, job's friends is beginning to become a corollary if not a possibility. Started another post here;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21404&forum=36] Am I a wretched man ... still?[/url]

Let's move this over please and keep Ben's situation in focus.

I do have some misgivings as I suspected from my earlier thoughts, it is a bit much and not prayed through. Ben hope we haven't overwhelmed you here and my apologies for adding a bit too much rambling.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/12/25 12:59Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re:

I was not trying to argue, but help Ben not to believe the lie that its normal for christians to be in bondage.

Things would not have been clear if I did not bring up faith in Christ, giving Ben HOPE.


_________________
Lisa

 2007/12/25 14:56Profile
davyman
Member



Joined: 2007/12/21
Posts: 83


 Re:

Quote:

myfirstLove wrote:
I was not trying to argue, but help Ben not to believe the lie that its normal for christians to be in bondage.

Things would not have been clear if I did not bring up faith in Christ, giving Ben HOPE.



I agree that it is not normal for a Christian to be in "bondage" to sin. It is no longer a Christian's master. But each of us does succumb to it far too often. I am praying for Ben. Brother be encouraged Christ has won the victory.

In His love, SDG,

Dave

 2007/12/25 18:36Profile
sermonindex
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Posts: 37587
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
I am praying for Ben. Brother be encouraged Christ has won the victory.


Amen, lets end this here. I have locked this thread and I do encourage people to continue the discussion on that related topic that mike posted.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/12/25 19:27Profile





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