Hi Kire,

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Mike Compton

What is so distressing to me is that it is the large worldly churches, if you please, that can really put on a wonderful production. Hey! I love music, love the excellence in their performance! And you could rightly say, "yeah, all it was IS just a performance" and you are right. The smaller churches do not have the resourses at their disposal to put on such a magnificant production.

Have you ever seen "The Miracle" at Pigeon Forge, TN? That is just wonderful, but are the performers godly? Who knows? I have no idea. I love all of it except for the part where a lady acted like a seducer - at this I cringe. But she was, oh so good... Then you come to the point some make that acting, even as a profession is sinful, taking their clue from ancient Christian writers who opposed stage acting as being hypocritical.

You want excellence in music, but you do not want hypocrites working as ministers to you of God's word...

Can't win. "sigh" :-o

ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller

Brothers,

Paul and MC ... Read through your most recent expressions here last night and could only pray for this spirit of heart honesty to take hold of us all here. I hesitate, as Paul spoke so well to, to even excerpting from what you wrote MC but I am compelled nonetheless ...

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Mike Balog

Hi ginnyrose...

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Christopher

There are some compelling arguments here, and I suppose it is a fitting discussion for this thread.

When I think of Christmas Carols it's not the lives of the person singing that I connect with the song, it's the style and the atmosphere it creates. For example: Bing Crosby. When Bing is crooning in the back ground I dont get an image of Bing... I get nostalgic about Christmas pasts when I was a kid visiting my grandparents. The smell of apple pie baking, Christmas cookies, honey comb, and Bing Crosby in the back ground.

It's more of a stylistic thing for me, and not necessarily about the person.

This is where I'm perhaps hypocritical because when it comes to Christian music the rest of the year I am just like everyone else here... I want to listen to someone who means what they are singing.

I dont think it's sinful to listen to a Bing Crosby Christmas CD. If it bothers someone, then they shouldnt listen to it. I think it falls under the "meat offered to idols" category.

And Bing is dead... he has already bowed his knee to Jesus Christ. Hopefully for him, it was willingly.

One other thing I'd like to mention, we need to be careful when naming people we dont think were Christians. Paul named Johnny Cash and the Oak Ridge Boys. Johnny Cash was a very complex man, but he claimed to be a born again Christian. Would I agree with everything he ever did? Probably not. But he did show evidence of being saved. The Oaks started as a gospel group, then went secular, and are now a gospel group again. Having just read an interview with Joe Bonsall (the tenor), I came away confident that at least three of the members truly are committed Christians. He said "I am a born again Christian." I refuse to judge whether he is or not once that statement is made. I may look at someone's life and say "I dont think a born again Christian should do this or that" but I will not say "That person is not saved" if they claim they are... because there is no way for me to know their heart.

Whether these folks are saved or not is known to God for sure. But we need to be careful when we make comments like "songs from the CCM industry recorded from unconverted people for the sake of profit and men's exalting and entertainment." is dangerous because no one here knows that for sure... and in doing so we may be sitting in judgement of people's hearts when we were never given that authority.

All I am saying is... we need to be careful, and not make large sweeping general statements. We need to remember God will hold us accountable for every word. That should be enough to make all of us quit writing on this forum all together! :-?

Krispy

Thanks, Krispy, as usual, I am in perfect agreement with ya! :-P

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Melissa

Dear Compliments,

It is sad, as someone else said, that you can't find anyone who is truly "living it", especially since that is what Christ has called all Christians to do. I do know several people who are [i]truly[/i] living it; I have been in their homes, I have heard their spouses speak of their selflessness and love at home, I have seen them live the life of Christ on a day to day level. My grandfather is one of them. I don't think I have ever heard him say a harsh word to my grandmother; he is loving and compassionate even though it doesn't really come naturally to him since he is a strong German. He lives what he preaches (quite literally, since he is a pastor) and that is something I value in him. I do agree with you that it is rare, but it is possible by God's grace. Praise the Lord for that!!

Mikah

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Mikah Litchfield

What eloquent replies!

When I was a child, I used to sit by the lighted tree and sing Silent Night quietly until someone got up. I didn't know what it truly meant or where it came from, I just liked the music and I thought it was appropriate, at age 11.

The year after I was born again I went to a church "Contada" and I was overwhelmed weeping when they sang a song that said, "He became one of us." It meant so much to me to realize that Christ had laid aside His glory and became human on my behalf.

Now as I look back 25 years later I see that we humans have an error within us, we do not always see as God sees; neither do we hear as God hears. Oft times we speak before we give time for fruit to grow, before we fall on our faces and pray for the backslider or the opressed doubter.

My heart still rejoices when I see a child singing with all their hearts to the Lord; I also rejoice when I see an old man, battered by life and sin barely holding onto breath singing Amazing Grace. Sometimes the song of a bird at just the right time causes me to consider the birds of the air and how the Father takes care of them (which do not have an eternal soul); or I will hear a song by a secular artist which shows a searching soul for an eternal ache and I will pray that God will reveal Himself to them.

I have also been offended at some who call themselves Christian performers or artists and in my heart I sense that they are stumbling blocks for the weak. Sometimes singing scriptural error with mere emotional cues and demanding mere emotional response.

I surely agree, I would rather hear a child sing Silent Night, or a secular artist sing a song saying "O come let us adore Him!" than to hear error in the church.

Thanks for the differnt insights!

(By the way, several years ago when asked to sing around Christmas time at the church I was attending I sang this song....... most folks were quite confused.....)

"Let all mortal flesh keep silent, and with fear and trembling stand. Ponder nothing earthly minded for with blessings in His hand, Christ our God to earth descended, our full homage to demand.
Rank on rank the host of heaven, spread their vanguard on the way, as the Light of Lights descended from the realms of endless day that the power hell be vanquished; as the darkness slips away.
At His feet the six winged seriph, cheribum with sleepless eye, veil their faces to His presence as with ceaseless voice they cry, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah Lord Most High."

Now, I don't "celebrate" the worlds idea of "Christmas", altough, now I enjoy Christ birth, death, and resurrection everyday in my heart. I want to be giving and generous everyday to those around me, my family and the less fortunate. By the way, I like to sing songs about Christs Incarnation whatever the time of year!!! How great of a song is Hark the Herald Angels Sing!? God and sinners reconciled! Veiled in flesh the Godhead see, Hail the incarnate Diety!! How great is that?!
Lori

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Lori Salyer