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geddingsm
Member



Joined: 2003/11/3
Posts: 61
south carolina

 Can't be a Christian and a biologist?

Christian biologist fired for beliefs, suit says

By Jason Szep Mon Dec 10, 11:25 AM ET

BOSTON (Reuters) - A Christian biologist is suing the prestigious Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts, claiming he was fired for refusing to accept evolution, lawyers involved in the case said on Friday.

Nathaniel Abraham, an Indian national who describes himself as a "Bible-believing Christian," said in the suit filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in Boston that he was fired in 2004 because he would not accept evolution as scientific fact.

The latest U.S. academic spat over science and religion was first reported in The Boston Globe newspaper on Friday. Gibbs Law Firm in Florida, which is representing Abraham, said he was seeking $500,000 in compensation.

The zebrafish specialist said his civil rights were violated when he was dismissed shortly after telling his superior he did not accept evolution because he believed the Bible presented a true account of human creation.

Creationists such as Abraham believe God made the world in six days, as the Bible's Book of Genesis says.

Woods Hole, a federally funded nonprofit research center on Cape Cod, said in a statement it firmly believed its actions and those of its employees in the case were "entirely lawful" and that it does not discriminate.

Abraham, who was dismissed eight months after he was hired, said he was willing to do research using evolutionary concepts but that he had been required to accept Darwin's theory of evolution as scientific fact or lose his job.

The Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination dismissed the case this year, saying Abraham's request not to work on evolutionary aspects of research would be difficult for Woods Hole because its work is based on evolutionary theories.

Abraham said this condition was never spelled out in the advertisement for the job and that his dismissal led to severe economic losses, an injured reputation, emotional pain and suffering and mental anguish.

The case underscores tension between scientists, who see creationist views as anti-science, and evangelical Christians who argue that protections of religious freedom enshrined in the U.S. Constitution extend to scientific settings.

Abraham, 35, is now a biology professor at Liberty University, a Baptist school in Virginia founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, a Christian pastor and televangelist.


Isn't it amazing that a Christian cannot be discriminated against?

In Him,
geddingsm


_________________
marvin geddings

 2007/12/10 16:11Profile









 Re: Can't be a Christian and a biologist?

this guy, if he wants any credibility for his position, should be suing for his job back or some other remedy, and not for $500,000.

question

could a physicist deny the workings of gravity and still be employable?

could a health care professional deny medicine and in its stead proclaim faith healing as the only acceptable remedy?

could a mathematics professor deny that there are negative numbers (since there can't be a negative quantity of anything in your pocket) and still get a job??

if this Christian biologist doesn't believe in evolution then he also doesn't believe in gene migration or other events that can change some of the basic nature of an animal.

biology is about the interaction of genetic material with its environment. it is a field constantly changing and evolving. if you cannot accept the fact that it is changing, you shouldn't be a biologist.

Q: would you see a doctor that doesn't believe in aging?

bub

 2007/12/10 17:36
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Not believing in something should have no bearing on job status unless it is an issue of safety. He doesn't need to believe in evolution to be able to work out theories in evolution.

What would happen if someone was fired for beleiving evolution?


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/12/10 17:54Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7486
Mississippi

 Re:

Bubba,

In reading your post I get the sense you think it would be impossible to be a biologist without believing in evilution. Right?

Our oldest son graduated from a state university with a BS in Microbiology and a minor in chemistry. He remains a creationist to this day! He says that when you learn the basic principles as taught in biology 101, you will be able to see through the weakness inherent in the evolutionist theory. Three of our four boys have earned college degrees from a state institution and their beliefs in the Biblical account of creation remain. Actually, they make fun of evolution!

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/12/10 22:11Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Bubbaguy,

Your analogies comparing evolution to practical branches and aspects of science is incredibly generous to Darwinists. In actuality evolution's return on belief (ROB) is pretty slim...it offers no practical benifits like those other sciences you mentioned. Darwinism offers no cures, no predictions, no measurements in the manner of those other sciences.

Along the lines of Ginnyroses post, it is perfectly reasonable, apart from dogma, for someone who rejects Darwinism to be a biologist. I know there are even secular medical professionals who do accept evolution, yet freely admit evolutionary science offers no illumination into how they aproach their patients or test their procedures or research their medicines. Dawninism to them is...well, like the vestigial organ within the body of accepted scientific knowledge! ;-) Everyone wants to keep it and cries when you talk about removing it, but nobody knows what it actually does (really) or what it's ultimately good for.

edit: For what it's worth, I tend to agree with your questioning of the law suit. Seriously, with his beliefs, regardless of his professional credentials, he should've known he wouldn't be hired in the first place. What gall! What impudence!

MC



_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/12/10 22:50Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Bubba,

In reading your post I get the sense you think it would be impossible to be a biologist without believing in evolution. Right?



I'm not Bubba, but here's a list of scientists who are creationists, and more, they believe in the creation account according to Genesis. [i]*edit There are several biologists in this list.[/i]

Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation

* Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
* Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
* Dr. James Allan, Geneticist
* Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
* Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
* Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
* Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
* Dr. Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
* Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
* Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
* Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
* Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
* Dr. Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
* Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
* Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
* Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
* Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
* Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
* Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
* Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
* Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
* Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist (interview)
* Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
* Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
* Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
* Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
* Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
* Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
* Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
* Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
* Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
* Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
* Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
* Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
* Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
* Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
* Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
* Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
* Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
* Dr. David Down, Field Archaeologist
* Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
* Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
* Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
* Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
* Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
* Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
* Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
* Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
* Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
* Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
* Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research
* Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
* Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist
* Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
* Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon
* Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
* Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History
* Dr. Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
* Dr. Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
* Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
* Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher
* Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
* Dr. John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
* Dr. Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
* Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
* Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
* Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer
* Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
* Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist
* Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
* Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
* Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
* Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
* Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
* Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
* Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
* Dr. Russell Humphreys, Physicist
* Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
* Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
* George T. Javor, Biochemistry
* Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
* Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology
* Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
* Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
* Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
* Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
* Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist
* Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
* Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
* Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
* Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
* Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
* Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
* Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
* Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
* Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
* Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
* Dr. John Leslie, Biochemist
* Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
* Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
* Dr. Alan Love, Chemist
* Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
* Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
* Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
* Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
* Dr. John McEwan, Chemist
* Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
* Dr. David Menton, Anatomist
* Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist
* Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist
* Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
* Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician
* Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator
* Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
* Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918–2006), founder of the Institute for Creation Research.
* Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist
* Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist
* Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist
* Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
* Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology
* Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
* Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
* Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
* Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher
* Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
* Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
* Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
* Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
* Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
* Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
* Prof. Richard Porter
* Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
* Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist
* Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D.
* Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
* Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
* Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist
* Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology
* Dr. Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
* Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
* Dr. Ian Scott, Educator
* Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
* Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
* Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
* Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
* Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
* Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer
* Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
* Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
* Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915–1995) Three science doctorates; a creation science pioneer
* Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist
* Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
* Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology
* Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
* Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
* Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry
* Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics
* Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
* Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
* Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
* Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
* Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
* Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
* Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
* Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist
* Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892–1979) Surgeon
* Dr. Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
* Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
* Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist
* Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
* Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
* Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
* Dr. Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr. Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
* Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
* Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997)
* Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
* Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
* Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
* Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
* Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
* Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
* Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology


List taken from: [url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/default.asp]Answers In Genesis[/url]


_________________
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2007/12/10 23:22Profile









 Re:

Ginny,

if you compartmentalize the Creation and believe in small scale evolution (allowing, for example, the transition of scales into feathers, so that dinosaurs could become birds) but not large scale evolution, where ameobas evolve through eons to become land mammals, then you could probably be a biologist in good stead.

in this case Creation happens under a different set of rules, rather Commands from God, than what operates in nature today. if this Creation sets it up so that biology as we know it can operate under the existing rules, and thus the Creation is a special event not related to the geology of the earth or the progression of fossils within this geology (except where the Great Flood is involved) then you can set aside all concerns about whether the biology of nature is related to its existence in the first place.

If you can set aside our origins altoghter and just deal with what biology presents in the here and now, unrelated to how it got here, then you can accept both modern biology and the literal creation story from the Bible.

but this is a lot of ifs, if you ask me.

bub

 2007/12/11 10:57
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
If you can set aside our origins altoghter and just deal with what biology presents in the here and now, unrelated to how it got here, then you can accept both modern biology and the literal creation story from the Bible.



This would be a fine premise to mediate between different origin beliefs without effecting the quality of science. If only most academics were this reasonable!

(I also like your stipulation of allowing for small steps in species adaptation ala Darwin's finches or dog breeding. However, I think the example of scales changing into flight feathers falls (or flies) well into the territory of macro-evolution.)

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/12/11 11:31Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7486
Mississippi

 Re:

Bubba,

I do not know the answer to your arguments, but my boys could answer it quite easily, I am sure, but they are not here. So, I will leave it to other creationist to debate this issue. However, I have no difficulty believing God created the world in 6 literal days. If you were to remove this fact from the Scriptures, you will have to remove a lot because it is an understood fact woven throughout the entire Bible.

Now really, do you not think it is idoltrous to think you know more and better then the men who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/12/11 23:51Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7486
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
Our oldest son graduated from a state university with a BS in Microbiology and a minor in chemistry. He remains a creationist to this day! He says that when you learn the basic principles as taught in biology 101, you will be able to see through the weakness inherent in the evolutionist theory. Three of our four boys have earned college degrees from a state institution and their beliefs in the Biblical account of creation remain. Actually, they make fun of evolution!

After I posted this I got to thinking this needs a bit more explaining. All five of our children attended a school that used the ABeka curriculum from Pensacola Christian College, Pensacola, FL. ABeka is Bible based, which confronted evolution head on.

Just thought this needed a bit more clarifying.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/12/12 0:00Profile





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