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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?

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 Re:

Dorcas, This is what was kept silent from the beginning. 1 Corinthians 2 state very clearly that it was kept silent. If satan had known ( who was really behind it all anyway) that the actual victory of redemption and the bruse on his own head would come through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, he would have backed off completely.

Because the distorted movie of the Passion of the Christ puts in extra biblical garbage that Jesus had a conversation with satan in the garden is not found in scripture, it has distorted peoples perception.

Now, even His disciples really didn't grasp the whole of it until Jesus rose from the dead, and He spent 40 days with them after His resurrection explaining many things.

When Peter cut off the ear of the soldier, that tells you even Peter didn't quite get it.

Although Jesus said he would die and rise again, they had a head knowledge they couldn't grasp, but after had a deeper knowledge of Truth.

Jesus said, many things even then they wouldn't grasp, and the Holy Spirit would now bring to rememberance and teach us those deeper truths.

Only those Born Again, born of teh Spirit can actually understand more then just a head knowledge. We have a knowledge so deep, we would die defending it. Headknowledge does no such thing. It might die for it's own power or the power one might have over someone...called religion, but we are not the same thing as religion,. Ours is a personal intimate relationship. A Martyr is a disciple of Jesus Christ. Martyr's don't take lives, they lay theirs down. After Jesus was with teh Disciples, Peter, did not cut off anyone's ears again, but laid down his life for the Gospel. You can see the transformation fo Peter so completely now.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/11 9:24









 Re: I'm not joking ... who do you believe killed Jesus ?


Hi Katy,

Quote:
This is what was kept silent from the beginning.

I agree with you that some things were 'kept silent'. Please accept that I do. Okay?

But, my point here is not about those things which depended on Pentecost for their revelation to the understanding of believers.

In my second post on p2 of this thread, I quoted [b]eight[/b] instances where gospel writers connected the events surrounding Jesus death, with specific prophecy.

In fact, not all those observations (although written after Pentecost) may have needed the baptism in the Spirit to recognise them, but rather, a reasonable acquaintance with the Old Testament scriptures. Do you see what I mean?

In this thread, I am looking for acceptance of these observations by the New Testament writers. That's all. Can you agree to this?

 2007/12/11 9:45
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

dorcas, It would seem to me that Jesus' death and resurrection was for "whosoever" to be saved.
And since salvation is all inclusive, I believe his crucifiction was all inclusive. The whole of mankind is represented and implicated. There is none that escapes implication.This leads to a broader picture of who benefits from the resurrection.


David

 2007/12/11 9:57Profile









 Re:

PreachParsly asked

Quote:

Quote:
Are you asking if the Jews or the Gentiles were the ones who killed Jesus?



Dorcas answered:
Quote:
I am.



Dorcas, it is most clear to me your original post is not that people believe or disbelieve in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, or that that death and resurrection was prophesied in the OT, but you want to know... who done it?

When Abraham offered Isaac, and Abraham had a vision of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ [b] No Where[/b] does that vision include [b] who done it![/b] No where does that vision accuse anyone of [b] who done it![/b]

However the first prophecy is Genesis 3:15 and that because of satan corrupting mankind bringing sin and death upon man is [b]who done it[/b]

Now I gave you so much history behind this whole scene, that you probably don't think relevant, but it is......and is still relevant today and tomorrow as well.

The final overthrow of satan, has yet to be, but will come to pass, and now satan hates the Body of Christ Today wanting to kill us and corrupt us and mock us in the same way.

Why, because we have the answer to eternal life, that he doesn't want anyone to know....he'll lose his power over those lost souls he now holds in death.

So, If I may suggest we don't go on a witch hunt, but a Gospel mission to the lost, that whosoever believes Jesus died and rose from the dead, and those who put their faith in Him will be saved.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

[b]It was finished from the foundation of the world[/b]

 2007/12/11 13:52









 Re:

Dorcas, one other thing. We dont fight agsinst flesh and blood, but powers and principalities.....Don't you think that was true for Jesus as well. Who showed up in the desert and tempted Him for 40 Days???? Jews????Gentiles???

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/12/11 13:58









 Re:

Dorcas, this should answer your question:


John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. ;-)

He first speaketh a lie to Eve, right from the beginning, and death came upon all mankind.

 2007/12/11 14:29









 Re: I'm not joking ... who do you believe killed Jesus?


Hello David,

Quote:
It would seem to me that Jesus' death and resurrection was for "whosoever" to be saved.
And since salvation is all inclusive, I believe his crucifiction was all inclusive. The whole of mankind is represented and implicated. There is none that escapes implication.This leads to a broader picture of who benefits from the resurrection.

Of course you and the others who are expressing this thought, are completely correct about the [i]purpose[/i] of Jesus death and what it achieves, but that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking simply whether you accept Jesus' [b]precise determination[/b] that He would be [u]killed[/u] by Gentiles?

Is this what those watching, [u]did observe[/u]?


 2007/12/11 15:00









 Re: I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?


Dear Katy,

Your contributions are all of surrounding interest, but still have not homed in on my original question, which I've tried to elucidate further in my post to David.

What I'm saying is, Jesus said we have to believe [u]all[/u] His words. They are a rock on which we can build a house which will withstand the storm. Could the disciples depend on this word about His death.... or not?

You said:

Quote:
Dorcas, it is most clear to me your original post is not that people believe or disbelieve in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, or that that death and resurrection was prophesied in the OT, but you want to know... who done it?

That's right.

Very simply, Jesus said the Gentiles would do it.

I'm asking: do we accept this as a rock-solid [u]truth[/u]?

Did His prophecy come true, or not?

 2007/12/11 15:13









 Re:

Quote:
Very simply, Jesus said the Gentiles would do it.



Dorcas, considering Rome was in rule and Jews were in subjection to Roman rule, and crucifixion is Roman not Jewish, no one is doubting how OT Prophecy has foretold these events.

However if you read in Acts, and the Apostles on Pentecost preaching to the Jews...NOT GENTILES on that day, they said YOU have Crucified the Lord and killed him.

They turned Jesus over to Roman authority. Rome had the final say for sure, but they did what apostate Israel wanted.

I really don't know why this is so vitally important to you? How does this edify you spiritually?

God works all things together for His Good and His purposes is really the bottom line truth here.

Not to change the subject, but you reject many
solid rock [u]truths[/u] in the area of Romans 11 just for starters. But one can say, well, that's not how I interpret it at all. Is that an excuse for going against solid rock truth, not only there but other scripture to confirm....??

So why is this right on solid rock truth here so important in this area but not in other areas?

Love in Christ
Katy-Did






 2007/12/11 15:53









 Re:

Quote:
Very simply, Jesus said the Gentiles would do it.

I'm asking: do we accept this as a rock-solid truth?

Did His prophecy come true, or not?




Dorcas - I don't understand the title showing such emotion over something that Jesus Said would happen and of course it did happen, just as He said it would. Why wouldn't it ? He was God/Logos.

You just asked, ""Could the disciples depend on this word about His death.... or not?
Jesus said the Gentiles would do it. I'm asking: do we accept this as a rock-solid truth? Did His prophecy come true, or not?""


How could we even ask if "God's" prophecy came true?

Yes His Prophecy was true, always was and always will be.

ChrisJD gave a perfect Scripture reference to this on page two.

They, the Jews would have killed Him with stones or however, but He'd slip away because it was neither the time, place or way in which He prophesied how He would go in the O.T. Is 53, Ps 22, Is 42:1; 49:7, etc..

He had to die by and for all and His blood is on both the Jews hands and ours. Everyone of us, because His blood had to be shed for both/all.

Here's the verse Chris gave, again -

From the whole of Chpt 4 of Acts -

Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. [Quoting Ps 2:2]
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, [u]both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.[/u]


Simply - the Jews requested it - the Gentiles carried out the request and crucified/killed Him.

Is there any question of Jesus' Words or their fulfilment?

 2007/12/11 16:08





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