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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The first 20 books of Revelation

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 Re:

Quote:

rowdy2 wrote:
Reply to
BenWilliams.
Sir if you have a city, (figuratively speaking) a place of refuge, a place or state of safety from danger or trouble to flee to you should be able to answer your own question.. Our city is not a city that can be shaken (made with hands)

Hebrews 12
22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26. Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29. For our God is a consuming fire.

Hi Eddie

I get the impression that you are confusing two things here. One is the spiritual City of which all true followers of Jesus are already a part. In that case I suppose the Second Coming was at Pentecost, where He came by the Spirit to dwell in the hearts of His followers.

As He said, in the discourse on teh coming of the Spirit in John's Gospel: "I will not leave you comfortless, [i][b]I[/b][/i] will come to you."

In that sense He is already come, although most people wouldn't call that the "Second Coming"

But there is also a coming which is physical, this is the other thing. As the angels said to the disciples at Jesus' ascension, "why do you stand gazing up to heaven...this same Jesus...will return in like manner..." (quoted from memory, you must know the passage)

It's getting late and I can't look up any more of the relevant scriptures for that now (there are many), but I will do it when there's time, if you like.

Neither have a few other things happened, such as animals all eating plants instead of each other, or the new heaven and new earth.

And it also says that when Jesus returns, every eye will see Him, including those who rejected Him.


Which as far as most of us can tell hasn't happened yet!

in Him

Jeannette

 2007/12/6 17:58
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: My Hero

Reply to PreachParsly

PreachParsly Quote “A hero? I don't know why you would say that”
Eddie, that is my reason for saying it.

PreachParsly Quote “ End Times”
Eddie, Which generation? What people?

PreachParsly Quote “the destruction of Jerusalem”
Eddie, Titus, 70 AD


PreachParsly Quote “Antichrist
Eddie- 1 John 2
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

PreachParsly Quote “Great Tribulation”
Eddie Yes, I believe the great tribulation for Israel has passed and they are just another secular country of this generation.
Luke 19:
41. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42. Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

PreachParsly Quote “the Day of the Lord”
Eddie Day of the Lord means the righteous judgement visits every country, city, or person but not before given ample time to repent,

Jonah 1
1. Now the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
2. Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

Judea sent the Prophets to the ten tribes of Samaria and they prophesied against them and they repented not and the Lord God allowed them to be taken into captivity.

Jesus sent His twelve Apostles to Judea with explicit instructions.


Matthew 10
1. And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3. Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4. Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5. These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10. Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11. And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12. And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16. Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17. But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18. And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26. Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32. Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
40. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/6 19:37Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: to LittleGift


Quote
Janette wrote
Hi Eddie
"I get the impression that you are confusing two things here. One is the spiritual City of which all true followers of Jesus are already a part. In that case I suppose the Second Coming was at Pentecost, where He came by the Spirit to dwell in the hearts of His followers."

1 Corinthians 6:17. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

"As He said, in the discourse on teh coming of the Spirit in John's Gospel: "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you."

"In that sense He is already come, although most people wouldn't call that the "Second Coming"
END OF QUOTE

Reply
Eddie; Dear Sister, No I am not confusing the coming of the Spirit of Truth which is The Comforter and also the Holy Ghost with The Risen Glorified Son of God.

KJV- And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him, but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

I am talking about the Spirit of God that lives in Christ that lives in Christians that teaches the Gospel of faith as Head of the body..

Jesus taught Law, Law, Law to the Jews because the were under that dispensation . I believe these words of Jesus that were revealed to John in their literal meaning that all did see Jesus on the Day of Their Lord that terrible day of their Judgement of that generation..
Revelation 1
6. And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Had a hard day goodnight.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/6 20:23Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Hey rowdy2,

janette is right, you are confusing those two things.

But I intend to show by one verse how your interpretation is flawed at best.


[b][color=FF0000]Revelation 1:19

19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;[/color][/b]


John wrote the book of revelation long after all the events by which you determine your interpretation.

Jesus Christ himself says, "write down the things which will be hereafter". That means, it has not taken place yet.


But, as I said in my first post, you are not honest enough with yourself to research this by going to the scholars to see what they have to say. If you were diligent, and genuinely seeking the truth, you would seek it in all places.

But you already know that the scholars do not agree with your position, so you are not about to go research what they say.

I doubt if you have even researched the history of your own stance on the issue, how it came about, who had this "revelation", and the character of the man by which this "revelation" came.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/12/7 10:35Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: confussed

Reply to Benwilliams

Sir your statement that “ scholars do not agree with your position” is of as much consequence to me as if the Sadducees, Pharisees, Assideans, Antiochus Epiphanes the Illustrious, or the the Sanhedrim disagreed with me. I am not their servant.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/7 17:24Profile
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re:

I just finished reading the book by
Hank Hanagraff, the Apocylopse code.
It is a preterist view and he does have some good
arguements for it.
But.
I would have to think that like most prophesy
Prophecy is usually two pronged. one for present
day happening and future happening.
It was fufilled in part at the time and has
a future fufillment yet to come.
Obviously the letters to the Churches were for the 7 churches who needed to take heed to the Lords warnings, yet we can apply these same warnings to our churches today and in ourselves.
yes judgment did come to the old system in Israel
a fact that cant be disputed.
The Glory of God had truly departed from the nation of Israel and grafted into the Vine, (Jesus) are the Believers who follow him.
Isaiah, Exekiel, Jeremiah. all predict something God was going to do, for their time and for the future, all did come true, and yet still to be completely fufilled.
Its not worth arguing about really...
Love Jesus, Love your neighbor, Fear God and Follow him, abide in him and he will take care of prophecy.... in his timing..
God bless.


_________________
howard

 2007/12/7 20:14Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Attempt to Rephrase

Reply to ginnyrose


Dear Sister: Jesus is always present with Jeshurun even from the beginning

The only exception was for the three days. I believe the words of God that they were not left with out a comforter and that Jesus rose on the third day.

Matthew 12:39
39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Read The Book of Nahum 1, 2, 3, The burden of Nineveh. Our Father never changes.

Jesus ( incarnate) ( Emman'uel) (Immanuel ) (God)came to the lost sheep of Judea because their wickedness had come up before Him to warn them as Jonah had warned Nineveh and only God’s remnant escaped by not looking back at their possessions when the city of Jerusalem was burned and John on the Island of Patmos was even amazed when John looked on that very day (or back) (or forward)in time while in the Spirit upon that awful Day of judement of the Lord our God.

Matthew 10: 5-7
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus was standing in Galilee when He sent the twelve to the house of Israel, not to the Gentiles nor the Samaritans or Galileans.


Luke 7: 31-33
And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like? They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced, we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept. For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

Fear God!


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Eddie

 2007/12/8 8:43Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Fear God and Follow him

Reply to Poet
Thank you for your admonishment and your earnest thoughts.

John 14
1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Follow Jesus, have faith and fear God

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/8 8:51Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

rowdy2 said:

Quote:
Sir your statement that “ scholars do not agree with your position” is of as much consequence to me as if the Sadducees, Pharisees, Assideans, Antiochus Epiphanes the Illustrious, or the the Sanhedrim disagreed with me. I am not their servant.



I thought you would say as much, but you do not realize the attitude of your heart concerning the issue is not honest.

You have in one lump sum gathered any man who bears the title of scholar and said, "they are Sadducees, and Pharisees."

Do you realize that the title of scholar simply means they are qualified by educational background to interpret the original text from it's language to ours, and then interpret it as best as possible. That does not make their interpretation right, and I did not say it did.

You have well spoken to say that you are not their servant, for you are the servant of what you believe.

Like any servant, you are subject to your master, and your master will not allow you to find out if he is speaking to you the truth.

I realize that I am speaking to you very strongly, but I am attempting to pinpoint the issue, and the issue is that you have not done your homework. You have chosen a set of beliefs based off of a limited knowledge of scriptural interpretation.

Proof of what I have said is that you did not address the verse that I mentioned, where the writer of Revelation says that some of the things written have not taken place yet.

You come to the table without enough greek or hebrew training to declare the things you say as true, yet you speak as though you do.

Do you know that the Antichrist is the second most mentioned man in the whole Bible? Not the spirit of antichrist, but the actual man. In categorical order it is this way, Jesus first, Antichrist second, David third.

Oh, but you already knew about all the prophecies in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and other scriptures concerning the actual man. You dismissed those, and flatly stated that Revelation has nothing to do with those.

I ask you, if you are an honest man, address the issue that I raised about how John stated that some things in that he wrote in Revelation had not come to pass yet.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/12/10 12:34Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: The first 20 books of Revelation

Reply to Mr. Williams Sir you have found me lacking in several areas, my scholarly credentials, my Greek and Hebrew training, lack of formal educational, lack of a educational background and a complete lack of works to earn salvation which in the interest of preserving my honesty I readily admit to you I have none and concede to your judgment.

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you Mr. Williams, or of man's judgment.

As for the matter of Revelation 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

We have no disagreement unless my belief at the time John spoke these words there was a portion unfulfilled but looking back hundred of years latter I do believe all of the first 19 Chapters of Revelation Chapter had been or was being fulfilled at the time John was writing..

I still believe we are living in the times spoken of in the last two chapters of Revelation .

As a one hundred and one year old friend of mine says when speaking about His knowledge of God’s word. “ I may not read so well, but I know His name”.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/10 15:37Profile





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