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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The first 20 books of Revelation

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rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 The first 20 books of Revelation

Revelation
The first 20 books of Revelation is a disclosure of the end of the religious system prevailing at that particular time, which was the Old Covenant (Testament) Mosaic or Jewish dispensation . The warfare and triumph of the Christ is described in Old Testament language.

Chapter 20 and 21 is the ushering in of the gospel, the perfect law of liberty.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/5 8:28Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7511
Mississippi

 Re: The first 20 books of Revelation

Rowdy,

Would you please rephrase your post? If I understand your thoughts as written, it comes cross as being strange and unbiblical.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/12/5 12:20Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re: The first 20 books of Revelation

Quote:

rowdy2 wrote:
Revelation
The first 20 books of Revelation is a disclosure of the end of the religious system prevailing at that particular time, which was the Old Covenant (Testament) Mosaic or Jewish dispensation . The warfare and triumph of the Christ is described in Old Testament language.

Chapter 20 and 21 is the ushering in of the gospel, the perfect law of liberty.



Are you talking about [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism]Preterism?[/url]


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/12/5 14:40Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re: The first 20 books of Revelation

rowdy2 wrote:

Quote:
Revelation
The first 20 books of Revelation is a disclosure of the end of the religious system prevailing at that particular time, which was the Old Covenant (Testament) Mosaic or Jewish dispensation . The warfare and triumph of the Christ is described in Old Testament language.

Chapter 20 and 21 is the ushering in of the gospel, the perfect law of liberty.



I am very glad that you have managed to wrap your mind around what has baffled scholars for centuries, without an agreed upon interpretation. It gives me so much peace in my heart to know that you have found the true interpretation.

This explains how the 2nd coming of Christ has already happened. It's good to know that we are waiting for His 3d coming don't you think?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but be real about it for a second. If this was true, how many scholars out of a hundred would agree with you?

Go research that, use Christian scholars, use Jewish scholars, use scholars that have no faith at all, and find out how many of them agree with that position, and then come back and show your findings.

I would be shocked if you researched 100 scholars, if more than 5 of them held that position. But I doubt that you will do the work necessary to find out if what you say is really true.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/12/5 15:43Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re:

Reply to
PreachParsly You are a hero of mine but I believe What I wrote and stand behind it but I don’t even know what Preterism means.

Reply to
ginnyrose I will give thought to your request and will oblige soon if I can.

Reply to
BenWilliams. Sir I have always read John’s revelation of Christ while a searching Old Testament verbiage for clarity and I don’t believe I am wrong but we can agree to disagree.

I was not trying for sensationalism I was stating my belief but I respect each of your opinions. I didn’t reach this opinion with out much Bible study and changing my beliefs will not be likely.

I believe that Jesus’s spirit and God abodes in every Christian and I worship God in spirit. I know what futurism in the Biblical sense means to me and I reject modern day religion that makes a covenant with death that will not stand. Jesus has returned and lives in every one who loves God and keeps His sayings but the worldly are to busy buying and selling and marrying and giving in marriage to receive their King.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/5 18:41Profile









 Re:

What do you guys understand from these verses ?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1Co 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
1Co 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1Co 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 2007/12/5 19:07
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: The first 20 books of Revelation

The world is still under the righteous laws of God. The world would not know sin if Holy Father had not written His Laws with His own finger in tablets of stone. God's law are a view of God's righteousness not ours. The world is a desolate spiritual wilderness and a living hell to all that are drawn into idolatry and forsake God and become ignorant and morally corrupt.
Romans 1: 19-32
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful, who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


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Eddie

 2007/12/6 9:03Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
Reply to
PreachParsly You are a hero of mine but I believe What I wrote and stand behind it but I don’t even know what Preterism means.



A hero? :-) I don't know why you would say that.

I was just asking so I would know what you meant by your first post. Preterism teaches that either all or most of the things which are called "End Times" by others have already been fulfilled. Things like the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord have already happened according to this view.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/12/6 10:20Profile
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Reply to
BenWilliams. Sir I have always read John’s revelation of Christ while a searching Old Testament verbiage for clarity and I don’t believe I am wrong but we can agree to disagree.

I was not trying for sensationalism I was stating my belief but I respect each of your opinions. I didn’t reach this opinion with out much Bible study and changing my beliefs will not be likely.

I believe that Jesus’s spirit and God abodes in every Christian and I worship God in spirit. I know what futurism in the Biblical sense means to me and I reject modern day religion that makes a covenant with death that will not stand. Jesus has returned and lives in every one who loves God and keeps His sayings but the worldly are to busy buying and selling and marrying and giving in marriage to receive their King.



So let me ask you a question, when did the New Jerusalem come out of heaven and combine itself with the earth?

If you say it already did, I would like to know where it is, because I can't see it, and I would like to know where the throne in this new Jerusalem is so that I can go worship along with all the nations.


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Benjamin Williams

 2007/12/6 11:25Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: City

Reply to
BenWilliams.
Sir if you have a city, (figuratively speaking) a place of refuge, a place or state of safety from danger or trouble to flee to you should be able to answer your own question.. Our city is not a city that can be shaken (made with hands)

Hebrews 12
22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26. Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29. For our God is a consuming fire.


_________________
Eddie

 2007/12/6 17:08Profile





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