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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : “White Lying” to protect God’s people

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7511
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
As far as all of this hypothetical Jew-hiding discussion

Sir, this is not hypothetical. This idea is rooted in history as recent as WW2. It still characterizes persecution of Christians, regardless where and when it happens. What happened in WW2 has been popularized by Corrie ten Boom's book "The Hiding Place". But there were many others who hid Jews. In other communist countries hiding hunted people was common. And neither was this act restricted to WW2: it happened throughout Christian history whenever persecution reared its head.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/12/7 11:08Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1196
Germany NRW

 Re:

Dear Saints,

I am glad that my post triggered of an interesting discussion. I am very much aware that we soon may find ourselves in situation where the only way out of such a situation would be a lie.

The law of Moses says do not give false testimony but it also says in Proverbs 24:11-12
Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter. 12 If you say, "But we knew nothing about this," does not he who [u]weighs the heart[/u] perceive it? Does not he who guards your life know it? Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?

Could it be that God purposely inserted the passage of Rahab into Heb 11 as to vindicate the deceiful behaviour of those who do it with the sole intention to protect God's peoples lifes.

Would you rather not hide Jews because you do not want to face this scenario?

I personally would try other ways to get of this dilemma, but if cornered I would lie, trusting that God will "weigh my heart" as mentioned above.
I see this as the only exception.

A variation of this scenario is when I am asked to renounce my faith to save the lifes of others. In this case I would ask God for mercy to stand firm.

narrowpath


 2007/12/11 18:10Profile
wj3000
Member



Joined: 2007/8/28
Posts: 9


 Re:

Hi ginnyrose,

I'm afraid my point was lost here. I wasn't trying to claim that people haven't heroically hidden Jews and Christians or any other group from persecution by calling the discussion hypothetical. What I meant is that no one at this forum has been forced to make a decision like this... or they haven't shared the story yet, which makes it, to us, hypothetical. My point was not that these kinds of decisions don't exist. It was to realize that it is man's sinfulness which creates these scenarios not God. So, just because we're forced to make a choice where all of the options are, to varying degrees, sinful, doesn't mean that God is to be called into question for creating that scenario. He didn't create it. Man created it.
So, to me, it these instances aren't confusing and contradictory for a Christian.

j

 2007/12/12 13:57Profile









 Re:

I want to be careful what I sat because I dont want to be misunderstood... lying is a sin. However, 99% of lying is for selfish reasons.

But there are underground churches that one could say are being deceitful to their government. There are Bible smuggled into areas very deceptively where they are outlawed, there are missionaries in many countries who are there as "workers" maintaining jobs but there intentions for being there are strictly to evnagelize (deception), and in WWII there were Christians who hid Jews in the attics and basements... lying to the Nazi's when they came looking for Jews.

Some folks on this forum will say that lying is a sin no matter what... and that all the examples I've given are examples of people not trusting God. Yet in the OT there are many examples of God's people using deceit against God's enemies with His blessing.

Something else to consider too... along the same lines of lying... there are many here who admire Deitrich Bonhoeffer as a giant of the faith (as do I), but does everyone here realize that he was very much in on a failed plot to kill Hitler. The bomb was planted, it did go off, but Hitler survived the blast.

Was Bonhoeffer right in doing that?

Krispy

 2007/12/12 14:20









 Re:

Quote:
As far as all of this hypothetical Jew-hiding discussion



There's nothing "hypothetical" about it... it happened. The only people who deny it are the KKK, the neo-Nazi's and the president of Iran.

I doubt you really want to associate yourself with those folks, do you?

Krispy

 2007/12/12 14:24









 Re:

Quote:
What I meant is that no one at this forum has been forced to make a decision like this... or they haven't shared the story yet, which makes it, to us, hypothetical.



Uhhmmm... are you sure about that?

One mistake commonly made on this forum is that people make assumptions about other people on this forum.

I cant say with the same absolute certainty that you just did that NO ONE on this forum has never been faced with such a decision.

Krispy

Krispy

 2007/12/12 14:30









 Re:

Based on a recent thread, most think it is ok to shoot people to protect the brethren. Lying then becomes a no brainer. I state this only as a matter of fact. If I thought it was OK to kill in order to protect the brethren from persecution then I too would think it ok to lie. Not saying that lying in this case is right or wrong (keeping my opinion to myself to avoid strife) but just stating the obvious.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/12/12 14:38









 Re:

Jim, not once has anyone even suggested that we shoot someone to protect the brethren from persecution for their faith. You're not being honest when you say what you said in your post because that was never said. Not once.

Either that, or you just completely misunderstood what we were talking about on that other thread... but I think you're smarter than that.

Interesting that you give me reason to question your honesty... on [i]this[/i] thread.

You're spinning. And spinning is deception.

It's ok when you do it? ;-)

Krispy

 2007/12/12 14:47









 Re:

Quote:
You're spinning. And spinning is deception.



krispy -

That entire thread is full of posters who think it ok to kill someone to protect the brethren. That just happened, a lady killed someone to protect the brethren and everyone gave her a hearty amen. It's all there for the viewing.

This leads ME to believe that maybe YOU'RE calling me dishonest to cover up your own dishonesty? Not really :) but your comment is unmerited, I could publically accuse you of a lot of things... but I won't. Just wish you a good day with a smile on my face.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/12/12 15:59









 Re:

Publically accuse me of all kinds of things? What kind of attitude is that?

You're amazing, brother.

Krispy

 2007/12/12 16:33





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