No..not really I understand why they are warning folks from the extremes and I read alot..it seemed that many of the articles were saying these things(that I mentioned) were sure signs that someone was decieved...red flags went up for me..I just thot if you've perused the entire site then maybe you could clarify...synopsis-wise..what is ok?(in their estimations), no supernatural experiances? what do they condone..do they say?...I don't want to read the entire site if there is not a positve balance of what is an extraordinary experience( arepentant sold out blood bought born again saint)that they do condone. I am working on an expose to share insights I've been given through trial and error that I feel will be valuable.If I am satisfied that it will be something insightful/truthful about how to discern true vision/dreams etc.using a few self proclaimed prophet/watchman types who are causing more confusion than good ...ie: how to tell when someone's interpretation skills are scewed/defiled due to carnal/soulish mindset...Jesus has been helping me scrutinize all of my own personal ones..checking them carefully against the Written word and his character/fruit and now has turned me to examine others that He has been showing me on the internet..this computer interaction is rather new for me. so please try to understand what I mean...thanks...you made no mention of what I'd written in reply..about our feet being shod?
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet
| 2007/12/1 22:24||Profile|
I was just reading this article if it helps at all.
I'm sorry I hadn't posted to your first post.
I had those two sites in my 'copy' ready to just paste and just pasted them when coming back on here.
I have very deep thoughts on this whole "war" thing and it would take a lot of rehashing of things that I've already posted elsewhere to answer.
I suppose on this particular thread, I just couldn't go there - but on the thread "We Need to Talk About Peace" on the General Section we have.
Welcome by the way and welcome to computer interaction. It's difficult - that's my experience - but pray one for another.
I'll try to find more pages that may answer your questions - but as for myself - I do believe in the gifts - as long as they point away from ourselves and unto Him and the doctrine of the one having these experiences is sound.
I understand what you're saying and I also feel Sites that expose the counterfeits of what you're asking about are much needed in these days.
I think you'll enjoy the link from the one Site above.
All His Best to you
| 2007/12/1 22:46|
Sis, on the lighthousetrailsresearch site - on their Link page - are listed two pentecostal ministries that I spotted looking quickly.
Both sites are not against anything you asked on the previous page.
| 2007/12/1 23:55|
thank you for your kindness,my brother and patience in relating the info on the place in the forum where you folks have already been discussing the peace..war issue...I'll have to check it out... You were talking about the armour and I was thinking about what the Lord had shown me about the protective element of being in right relationship with Him in the place where we stand in regards to peace as being of great importance to whether we would be victorious or not...and how to be carnally minded in how we approached this particular aspect of life would make all the difference in the world as to whether we would be warring in the flesh or in the spirit..this is why I decided to share.I really love this forum..it has occured to me that there is a...oh....how do I say this...a sweeter spirit...less of an infighting...more gracious atmosphere...As I was talking to the Lord about it...thanking Him for helping me to find all these great longtime mentors sermons...even audio tapes..these wonderful saints whose lives and books and testimonies helped to develope my early foundation in Christ...wow..right at my fingertips...and after the disappointment of searching so many christian blogs..more like grief and shock....I feel safer here...not that safety has been that much of an issue in my life...not with the protection that we've got...but as far as actually fellowshipping with folks who are as focused and confident...sound and yet free...goodnatured and patient,eager to share ..wooohooo!...a little taste of heaven on earth for me! I believe it is the word of truth that is here on this site and all the saints of God who are featured here on sermon index who's lives are such a witness still, surrounding us,praying for us,helping to provide an oasis,a refuge for the beloved...they still live and move and have their being in Christ...it is fun to ponder these things. again thanks....Des
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet
| 2007/12/2 0:15||Profile|
Hi Des, yes, the Classics are what I came up on also.
The members are the best. You won't find the wacky doctrines and beliefs that are on other forums.
I'm happy that you are happy.
I pray you find Him here each visit.
Great Peace have they who love His Word.
By His Grace alone.
| 2007/12/2 0:32|
oops...sister....chuckle..thanks for the clue
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet
| 2007/12/2 20:47||Profile|
Back on topic.
Jesus warned that in the last days the chief problem would be the departure from Biblical Truth.
This happens either through doctrines of demons or experiences or some experiential knowledge that is outside of His Word.
Adding another site to the two intitially posted -
| 2007/12/4 11:49|
| 2007/12/4 13:10|
The Error of the One Gospel
By Warren Litzman
There are great numbers of believers who do not know there is a final gospel. For centuries theologians have erroneously maintained that there is only one gospel in the Bible. This is grave error but worse is the fact that such untruth has kept multitudes unaware that Christ lives in them and is their only life to God (Gal. 2:20). Why would anyone maintain such an idea when the Scriptures are so clear? I see that there are at least five reasons for this grave oversight and confusion of interpretation.
1) When believers are denied the facts of the seven dispensations in the Bible, they can never know who God is talking to or why. The study of the different dispensations open up the fact that God had a different message in each one of the dispensations. When you see this it becomes simple to see that God had a different message for the Gentiles. While God has but one plan it is broken into many different parts. Seeing this difference is knowing your Bible.
2) Unless you know the difference between the ministries of Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus our Lord, you can never understand the final gospel. When Jesus of Nazareth was sent to Israel He came to His own, but His own received Him not. The facts concerning His coming to Israel is one great truth, but Jesus, the Lord of our life, was sent to live in believers, whether Jews or Gentiles. Such an idea as this is not an extension of the work or words of Jesus of Nazareth. While it is the same Jesus that healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out devils and performed miracles and is the same Jesus that lives in believers today, the gospel for these two different works of God require two different messages.
3) This confusion over the final gospel exists because of the denial, by many, of the Apostle Pauls message which he called my gospel. Paul must be accepted as Gods last voice for the ultimate truth. He is the last God appointed Apostle, he is the final teacher of grace and his words alone set the pattern for modern believers Follow me as I follow Christ (I Cor. 11:1). Unless you follow Paul it will be difficult to know Christ in His fullness as Paul says three different times, God gave the final gospel to me to give to you (Eph. 3:17, Col. 1:25, I Cor. 9:16-17).
4) Most believers do not know the radical division there is in the Scriptures. That is the difference between prophecy and the mystery. Prophecy occupies at least 4/5 of the Bible and is based on law and legalism. Pauls teaching on grace is the message to the born-again and only occupies 1/5 of the Bible. The final gospel, the mystery, is to be found mostly in the 1/5. This by no means nullifies the 4/5 of the Bible.
5) The misplacement and the misuse of the Holy Spirit has kept many from the final truth. Most have erroneously taught the Holy Spirit is Christ. They teach that the believer is only in Christ when the believer receives the Holy Spirit. However, the life is only in the Son, Christs Spirit is joined to our spirit, and the Holy Spirit is joined to our soulish part (the mind) and is the teacher of the Christ-life.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The Holy Spirit works in the soul-mind, the life of God is in The Spirit of Christ that is in us.
Who is the Holy Spirit and what is His Job given by the Father by the request of the Son? He is to teach us this Christ that is in us.
Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God(according to what?) which is given to me for you, (who gave it to Paul?) to fulfil the word of God; (Why was it given?) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, (what was given?) but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; (what is the mystery?) which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (what is our Hope?) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (Perfect in who?)
The Holy Spirit teacher of this mystery? John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Why has The Holy Spirit come?
John 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
To teach us this message of the mystery Paul reveals to us in his writings. Revelation knowledge of the Christ that is in you.
John 14:26-29 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
Now we are supposed to know this, it has happened and we have been told even before it happened to each of us.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
If we don't See It, ask and you will recieve.
Why must we believe the Holy Spirit revealed in John 14,15,16,17? If we don't the world will devour us.
John 15:23-26 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
In Christ: Phillip
| 2007/12/4 19:04||Profile|
| Re: N.T. warnings on deception -|
[b]If It Looks So Good. . .
How Can It Be Deception???
By Barbara Wilhelm
"Now the serpent was more subtle and crafty than any creature of the field which God had made" (Gen 3:1) (Amplified version)
"But also (in those days) there arose false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among yourselves, who will subtly and stealthily introduce heretical doctrines." ( 2 Pe 2:1)
"For certain men have crept in stealthily - gaining entrance secretly by a side door" (Jude 4).
How often do we hear the refrain - if it looks so good ("brings forth such good fruit"), how can it be deception? Are we expecting deception to be obvious? Why then would the Bible describe it as "more subtle and crafty, stealthily" gaining entrance as by a side door? Barnes Commentary states in the analysis of 2 Pe 2:1 that:
"...(false teachers) would not at first make an open avowal of their doctrines, but would, in fact, while their teachings seemed to be in accordance with truth, secretly maintain opinions which would sap the very foundations of religion. The Greek words used in the preceding verses means properly to lead in along with others. Nothing could better express the usual way in which error is introduced. It is by the side, or along with, other doctrines which are true; that is, while the mind is turned mainly to other subjects, and is off its guard, gently and silently to lay down some principle, which, being admitted, would lead to error. Those who preach error rarely do it openly."
THEREFORE, WE SHOULD EXPECT DECEPTION TO LOOK GOOD!! According to the Bible, the easiest method of deception is for error to ride on the back of truth. We hear what is, indeed, truth being preached. We assume that everything, therefore, being preached is truth, that everything being done is biblical, so we let down our guard. . . and error and deception can then enter "secretly by the side door." Do we forget that it is a little bit of leaven that leavens the whole loaf?
Let's carefully examine what the Bible says about things that look good. A few simple - yet startling - examples:
Gen 13:10 - What did God describe as looking "like the Garden of the Lord"? SODOM (where exceedingly great sinners lived, v.13)
Ezek 28:12 - Who did God say was "the full measure and pattern of exactness - full of wisdom and perfect in beauty"? SATAN
Mt 7: 15 - Who will come "dressed as sheep" on the outside, "but inside are devouring wolves"? False prophets. . . looking good.
Acts 20:29-30 also speaks of "ferocious wolves" that come from "inside," from those thought to be in the flock of Christ.
Mt 23:12 - Who "looked beautiful on the outside"? The Pharisees who "inside are full of dead men's bones and everything impure."
2 Cor 11: 14,15 - Who will come as an "angel of light" and as "ministers of righteousness"? Satan and his servants.
Conclusion: deception looks good on the outside, but inside it is deadly.
It requires diligence to discern when Satan comes as an "angel of light," bringing what looks like the "light" of new revelation on a holy subject: when he comes, not as a devil, but as "another Jesus"; not with out-and-out heresy, but with "another Gospel"; and when he does all this in a religious setting, as "another spirit" (2 Cor 11:4). Have we forgotten that Satan is a "religious" creature? Have we not realized that false gospels are not completely new gospels, rather they are true gospels with a few "minor" changes? Didn't the Galatians believe the basic truths of Christianity? Yet, Paul said, not once but twice, that "any man" would be "accursed" (Gal 1:8-9) for preaching a "different gospel," for making a few changes to the true Gospel.
Perhaps, we need to look at some passages of Scripture in greater detail so that we may grow in discernment and avoid the deadly dangers of deception. Let's start at the beginning. . . Genesis 3 contains the foundational truths of discerning deception.
The Garden of Eden was a perfect religious setting; and into this perfect religious setting came deception. The relationship between God and the man and woman was so close that He "walked in the garden in the cool of the day" with them. This was spiritual intimacy of the highest order. And therein was part of Satan's subtle deception - he tempted the woman in the realm of that spiritual intimacy to become closer to God, to be more like Him (v.5). Let's remember that deception came before the Fall, before sin corrupted her mind with the twisted knowledge of what good and evil were. Exactly because of the purity of her being, this deception had to come in a very good disguise - so it came disguised in a holy desire for her to be closer to the God she loved. Such a holy desire - but, in order for it to be fulfilled she had to disobey His one "small" warning: just take one bite of what looked "good" to her. Here was the first appearance of the "angel of light," bringing new "light" in a "holy" way. And she did eat. . . and Adam did likewise. And they lost everything. The temptation looked good; it sounded "holy"; and it would allow them to grow "wise" - how could this be bad when it looked so good? In their deception and sin, the man and woman did not even first realize there was any change in them:
"After Eve had eaten and apparently suffered no ill effect, this constituted an additional argument why Adam need not hesitate to adopt the same course." (Barnes Commentary)
After all, she hadn't died as God said she would if she ate of the fruit, so it must be safe. But,
"they eat, they expect marvelous results, they wait and there grows on them a sense of shame." (ibid)
When we are first deceived, we may still seem to be holy - perhaps we may even think we are more holy - but in time a sense of shame will grow on us. We have partaken of that which God has forbidden in His Word: we have fallen for that which we think looks good.
In the Garden of Eden, wasn't one of the things the Lord was saying was that He had already given the man and woman ALL they need? They did not need more than all the trees and fruits He had already provided for them. Today, isn't He trying to tell us the same thing? He has given us salvation and the baptism of the Holy Spirit - there is no "more" described in the Bible. Then why is the cry across the land for "more, Lord, more"? Biblically, what "more" is there? Do we not already have all we need?
Then there is the parable of the wheat and the tares in Mt 13:24-30. Unger's Bible Dictionary defines tares as:
a poisonous grass almost indistinguishable from wheat while the two are growing into blade, at the beginning. When they come into ear, they can be separated without difficulty.
At the beginning all the crop looks good, according to what the eye can see. But as time goes on the tares become visible. The wheat is sown first by the Lord. Then the enemy sows his tares as men sleep. Isn't this another way of saying that, first, the true Gospel may be preached, but alongside of that, tares are sown (remember 2 Pe 2)? The Matthew Henry Commentary states:
. . . when reason and conscience sleep, and people are off their guard then the enemy comes in. . . . Note, when Satan is doing the greatest mischief, he studies most to conceal himself; for his design is in danger of being spoiled if he be seen in it; and therefore when he comes to sow tares, he transforms himself into an angel of light (2 Cor 11:13,14). . . The tares appeared not until the blade sprung up and brought forth fruit,v.26. As the good seed, so the tares lie a great while under the soil, and at first springing up, it is hard to distinguish them. . . ."
All revivals may look good: great enthusiasm and devotion may be displayed. But, religious enthusiasm in itself is not evidence of the truth. The Pharisees had great religious enthusiasm, so do Catholic mystics and Mormon missionaries. Yet, remember Mt 7: 21-23:
Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in YOUR NAME, and driven out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty miracles in YOUR NAME? And then I will say to them openly, Depart from Me, I never knew you.
Who were in danger: just a few? No, many. Were evil acts being performed? No, they were doing miracles, great signs and wonders, prophesying. Were they done in a demon's name? No, in JESUS' NAME! In His Holy Name. Yet, He said - depart from Me. How good it all looks and sounds - in our eyes. Not in His.
Moses was a true man of God, working true miracles. Yet, in the beginning, his miracles were duplicated by Pharaoh's magicians (Ex 7:11-12, 22; 8:7). So that we do not forget how prone we always are to "signs-and-wonders" deceptions, 2 Ti 2: 5-9 makes references to these magicians, Jannes and Jambres by name. It warns against "silly" (v.6) people who are "forever inquiring and getting information, but are never able to arrive at a knowledge of the Truth"(v.7). Verse 9 promises that these counterfeits will eventually be exposed. But, in the meantime, they will continue performing signs and wonders, counterfeit signs and wonders.
Counterfeits, in the real world, are only successful in so far as they, as closely as possible, imitate the real. Only very close scrutiny will show that that $100 bill is not legal tender. In the real world, if a warning went forth that there were counterfeiters at large, wouldn't we scrutinize our money with great diligence? Yet, there are "spiritual counterfeits" at large and so many are gullible enough to accept what they teach at face value. There is so much more at stake - our spiritual lives hang in the balance. The whole chapter of Deut 13 is a warning about deception, but perhaps the most alarming verses are 1-3:
"If a prophet arises among you and gives you a sign or wonder and the sign or wonder he foretells to you COMES TO PASS, and if he says, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them. You shall not listen to the words of that prophet; for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your mind and heart and with your entire being."
Note: the man called himself a prophet of God. He came from among them, like the tares are among the wheat, like error comes alongside truth. And, incredibly, what he said CAME TO PASS! IT LOOKED GOOD!! Yet, God says not to listen to him; on the contrary, v.8 says that that prophet is to be put to death for talking rebellion.
The Lord says all this deception is sent as a test to know whether we love Him totally. Interestingly, the remedy for deception is for us to do our own "testing." In 1 Th 5: 21 we are commanded by God to "prove all things until you can recognize what is good; to that hold fast." The word prove in Scripture is a metallurgist's term. It is referred to in Jer 6: 27-30. An assayer or prover is to test ore closely because fool's gold looks so much like real gold (it looks good.) Once the assayer tests the ore and discovers it is gold, he then tests it further to see how pure that gold is - 10k, 12k, 24k. Interesting, isn't it? God tests us to see if we are gold and how pure gold we are, and we are to test all things to see if they are gold and how pure they are. In Acts 17: 11 the Bereans were commended as being "more noble" because they took the Scriptures so seriously that they even tested the teachings of Paul. Notice that they did not use the fluctuating criteria of emotions or experiences in their testing; they used the only one reliable, trustworthy, infallible standard - the Word of God. Isa 8:20 commands: "Direct people to the teaching and the testimony; if their teachings are not in accord with this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Where is the purest gold found? in the City of God (Rev 21:21). We are only fit for this Golden City as we, too, are purified and immerse ourselves in pure teaching. In Jn 17:17 Jesus Himself said: "Sanctify them by the Truth. THY WORD is truth." Not our emotions, not our experiences, not by how good it looks or sounds or feels. . . by THY WORD. I will close this by two simple examples of testing popular teachings by the holy standard of the Bible:
How many times have we heard that the end-times will be marked by revival? Yet, revival is NOT the sign of the end-times. DECEPTION is the sign of the end times. So says Jesus in Mt 24 in v. 4, 5, 11, 23, 24. So says Paul in 2 Th 2:3.
How often have we been hearing lately about "miraculous signs and wonders"? The problem is that whenever signs and wonders are mentioned in the Bible in relation to the end times, they are called LYING signs and wonders! So says Jesus in Mt 24:24 and Paul in 2 Th 2: 9 ( see also 2 Pe 2). Jesus in fact warns strongly against signs and wonders in Mt 12:39 and 16:4 --"An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." Then why are so many today being applauded for the "signs and wonders" in their midst?
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html - October issue
| 2007/12/5 15:28|