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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL


Ouch MikeH, I've got to disagree with you on this one.

When was the last time that you got a speeding ticket... better yet, when was the last time you went over the speed limit? By your definition if you'd sped then you would not be a Christian.

Your arguement is a slippery slope that would eventually suck every single person into it, including yourself.

Ian Smith

 2007/11/28 10:18Profile


Illegal immigration is just that... [b]illegal[/b].

Wanna come here? You're more than welcome, but do it legally.

It's not a racial issue, as many in this country have tried to make it one... mainly liberals accusing people like me of being racists. It is a matter of national security. We have no idea who is coming across our border!

We start by cutting of that which is causing them to want to come here... we penalize and jail employers who hire illegal immigrants. Once there are no more jobs available to them, they will have no reason to come here illegally.

I often wonder why our inept government is doing [b]nothing[/b] about this issue, but the other day the thought occurred to me... this is such a common sense issue with common sense solutions... and thats why our government cant figure it out.

Add to this that there are those in our country (including Mr. Bush) who want to have a union like the Eurpoean Union, but this would be a North American Union with the US, Canada & Mexico. But how do you have a "union" when you have armed guards all along the border? So instead, we'll sacrifice our security. I am so against this "union" idea it makes my head hurt. If we go that way we can kiss what little of our Constitution we still acknowledge goodbye.

Dont believe me? On the back of my North Carolina drivers license there is a holagram of North America... Canada, US, and Mexico. Coincidence? Dont think so.

By the way, I see chandras actually responded a couple of times on this thread. Truly remarkable. Hopefully you will participate in this forum now... we would welcome your input.


 2007/11/28 10:32

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924

 Illegal Immigration:Chickens coming home to roost?

Dear Saints Greetings in JEsus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

the argument has been made that the conquest of the land of and forging of America as a nation was in many ways fraught with various illegalities, or blatant moral violations. The upsetting of the native way of life in which the land was communal rather than carved up for individuals by native law/custom was illegal. The subsequent extermination/marginalization of the native was not right either, nor was the enslavment of the African and European. So we have these issues which have consequences which we still deal with today and for which the Judgment i doubt is complete. That we have people sneaking into the country illegally i believe is partly a recompense for the above, the chickens are coming home to roost. This doesn't make the act of jumping the border any less legal but at least we're not being exterminated or enslaved.

i suppose we could penalize those who hire illegals, i'm not sure if there is a law stating that though. that isn't the only reason people jump the border though, some come to seek better healthcare with no intention of staying or for whatever reason. Then there are those who come in with drugs and such...

bro Krispy you said:

I often wonder why our inept government is doing nothing about this issue, but the other day the thought occurred to me... this is such a common sense issue with common sense solutions... and thats why our government cant figure it out.

um, you answered your own question when you said the government was inept. At any rate, the issue is quite complex and while i acknowledge the government's ineptitude, it's a tough job. i remember when Cheney dozed off in a meeting and it made news and some people at work were in a huff, but you know, sometimes those guys are up for 20+ hours a day. i guess if we worked in the government we'd see better how hard it can be. let's keep on praying for them saints.

i don't know about the union, this is the first i'm hearing of it but it would make crossing borders legal... :-P

i believe i have said it before that i don't think illegal immigration itself is a big enough deal to quickly undo this nation. China has a lot of clout, more so than is admitted to bring that about but even China is no big deal.China is now doing essentially what we did in the years after ww2, chickens coming home to roost again? What has undone us is that the hearts of men have loved darkness and not Light. that is the root of the issue and we need to REPENT or DIE. let us make our Light Shine and chase away the darkness.AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

i bless God though that Heaven knows no illegal immigrants... :-D

Farai Bamu

 2007/11/28 12:28Profile

Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374

 Re: Illegal Immigration:Chickens coming home to roost?

--- Not to be irreverent here but i believe the American problem of illegal immigration, primarily perpetrated by those who alledgedly do the work Americans won't do, will soon be brought to nought at the failing of our economy when many Americans will be fighting to get any jobs open ... Illegal imigrants won't stand a chance, as it'll become life threatening for them to be caught here, particularly those from south of our border, and i believe specifically Mexican ... There are some ugly changes in store for America ---

 2007/11/28 13:24Profile


Hey, there's that dude on the Discovery Channel that shows some of the most disgusting jobs (at equally disgustingly low wages) in existence... and the people he spotlights... are all Americans.

This "jobs Americans wont do" is a myth. You get hungry enough and you'll be surprised what you'll be willing to do.

Right after high school while I was waiting to head off to boot camp I worked at a Pizza Hut for 3 months. I challenge anyone to clean out a grease trap in a restaraunt and tell me there us anything worse, with the exception of working on sewage tanks.

And I wont even begin to tell you some of the nastiness involved with being in the military. Especially when you havent learned to shut your smart mouth yet... lol.


 2007/11/28 13:54

Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


iansmith wrote:
When was the last time that you got a speeding ticket...

Last summer in Switzerland. I was trying to find a hotel late at night... but I'm just making excuses. I was caught doing 54 Kilometers per hour (Kph) in a 50Kph area (the normal urban driving limit around here). They gave me 3Kph grace and then fined me 25 Euros (~$40) for that 1Kph :-o It's nice the Swiss have such accurate watches, but speed cameras... :-(

iansmith wrote:
... better yet, when was the last time you went over the speed limit?

Probably in the last week. I try and do 49.999Kph around town, but I know I occasionally drift over this. The advantage in Germany is that there are no limits on much of the motorways, so one is only limited by the power of ones car :-D (oh, and I guess ones courage and ones conscience.)

iansmith wrote:
By your definition if you'd sped then you would not be a Christian.

I think there is a fundamental difference between the two. If I have sped, it is a temporary sin, which with repentance can be resolved, whereas if I am an illegal immigrant, I am a permanently, consistently and deliberately breaking the laws of the land where I am. There is no respite from this condition, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The only way I can stop this, is to stop being an illegal immigrant.

I think you interpreted the question as 'If one commits sin, is this evidence of a lack of New Birth?' I was answering the question from the perspective of, 'Is it acceptable for a Christian to be an illegal immigrant?' I was not using a particular sin or sinful state as a clear definer of ones spiritual state (though John has some interesting perspectives on this), but rather in the same way that Paul says: [color=009900]Rom 6:1-2 What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? Far be the thought. We who have died to sin, how shall we still live in it? (Darby)[/color] If one is an illegal immigrant, one needs to rectify the situation, and if one is contemplating becoming one, my advise continues to be that one should not become one.

Kind regards

 2007/11/29 3:56Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


...this would be a North American Union with the US, Canada & Mexico.

Well, I think I could get used to the idea of fiestas and siestas ...but does a union with Canada mean that there will be more broadcasts of the Red Green Show on American soil? :-o


Mike Compton

 2007/11/29 8:44Profile

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England


Why have you gone anonymous?

Everyone knows it's you.


 2007/11/29 11:21Profile

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164


When someone goes anonymous it means the account has been deleted, whether it's by request or a moderator choice.

Josh Parsley

 2007/11/29 11:58Profile

Joined: 2007/11/30
Posts: 5


All honest Amreicans pays their taxes without telling them to pay.

 2007/11/30 2:33Profile

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