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Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
crsschk wrote:
Have been in the worst of these types of situations, Benny Hinn and his sudden 'prophetic utterances' of "some of you the Lord is telling me are able to contribute $1000 right now" (paraphrased) and watching someone write out a check right before my eyes for that very amount and what did that do but also create a sense of being on the spot? What should we do? A quick prayer .. a turning to the wife, a sense of urgency ... 50 bucks, a hundred, I don't even recall now. Plea after plea, newsletters and gimmickry, the church we attended all caught up in the same, the same Creeflo's and Hinn's and Hinckley's and on and on.



It just happened that I watched [url=http://youtube.com/watch?v=vVIdQ8BTJCQ]this[/url] video the other day. This man is lying and deluding like the devil himself. I am not grieved about him, but about thousands souls which he has lied. And we must not stand aside, we are warned and we must warn others!

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

It is already said.

 2007/11/19 10:46Profile









 Re: Another Minister Sending Habits Exposed


Mike, indeed you expressed the confusion which accompanies all false doctrine, and the sense of compromised integrity which the believer feels after their gullibility has been exposed to their undertsanding. In this last week, I was feeling the same way about my own gullibility over a different matter....

Quote:
Tempting ...

and thanking the Lord that He already has a plan. I had not understood something about forgiveness, which through repentance toward God I am beginning to experience (that is, the ability to forgive from my heart); I was thanking Him for Paul's express exhortation at the end of Romans 12, which I will quote from Tyndale, because he captures something expansive about God's intentions - emphasis mine:

[i]If it be possible, howbeit of your part, have peace with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves but give [b]room[/b] unto the wrath of God. For it is written: vengeance is mine, and I will reward, saith the Lord.

[u]Therefore[/u] if thine enemy hunger, feed him: if he thirst, give him drink. For in so doing thouh shalt heap coals* of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil. But overcome evil with goodness.

Marginal note: * Coals: thus shalt thou kindle him and make him to love.[/i]


Slowly, this word 'thus shalt thou kindle him', has been working in me, to expand my heart, as Isaiah 54:2 - 4 says:

Enlarge the place of thy tent,
and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations:
spare not, lengthen thy cords,
and strengthen thy stakes;
for thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left;
and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles,
and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed:
neither be thou confounded;
for thou shalt not be put to shame:
for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth,
and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.


It would not be possible for me to calculate the amount of money I gave away over a period of years, but I gave it to the Lord, and somehow I've been able to leave it with Him, by His grace to me, knowing that those who took responsibility for spending it, have their own account to give. I don't know how I would feel if I'd incurred debts to do that. Maybe I'd be smarting a [i]lot[/i] more... which is not to say I haven't been smarting about other things... :-(

 2007/11/19 11:14
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 319


 Re:

Thanks Mike for that post.

If anybody reads the Bible and has the Holy Spirit as their Teacher, they will soon realise that the prosperity gospel is a terrible deception.

These ministries need to be exposed, but let us remember that Satan has been adept at deceiving for centuries and he can use the Bible very cunningly to create these false gospels. Just look at the Roman Catholic Church. Any thorough study of that system will reveal heresies and doctrines of a diabolical nature and all in the name of Christ.

The fact that the Bible remains part of the religion created is important for Satan. He can add things to it, misinterpret it, change certain verses etc etc and all the time tie the poor victim of these religions up in knots. Now we, as Evangelicals, come along and try to preach the Gospel and point to the Bible as our authority. Immediately we realise that a web has been created in these people’s minds and it can be difficult to disentangle them. Unless we have the Holy Spirit we simply can’t do it.

My point is that the prosperity gospel ministries is simply another attempt by Satan to deceive. The frightening thing is how successful they are. It makes me despair to think of those big buckets being passed round and poor folk emptying their pockets in the hope of getting a nice supernatural return on their investment. However, there is very little point in those of us who are genuinely saved dwelling on this issue. It only serves to frustrate and anger us and we don’t have to live like that. I have to admit myself that I have allowed this to annoy me.

We have to keep at the forefront of our minds the great doctrine of election. This should serve to give us peace on this issue and a fantastic hope and assurance that God can save the deepest sinner and the most entangled victim of these heresies.

In Northern Ireland there was a tremendous vocal campaign against the Roman Catholic Church in the 60’s and 70’s. It was well thought out and Scriptural, but it was CARNAL and the end result we are all aware of and don’t need to go into here. Thankfully, we’ve moved on from that period.
I just feel there’s a danger of us trying to attack the prosperity gospel ministries in the same way and the result will be ‘Christianity’ being dragged through the mud. This plays right into Satan’s hands.

The Bible teaches us to preach the Gospel in love and grace, in the same manner as we have been saved. God can save (and correct those who are already saved) in spite of the fiercest and most cunning opposition and he will use us to do it if we are willing.

So let’s not waste our time trying to work out just how immoral and deceptive these ministries are. What good does it do anybody? Only God can open men’s eyes anyway. Let’s draw close to the Lord and have Him use us in powerful service for Him.

David


_________________
David

 2007/11/19 11:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If anybody reads the Bible and has the Holy Spirit as their Teacher, they will soon realise that the prosperity gospel is a terrible deception.



Amen Brother Dave! Thats exactly how I came out of the WOF deception. I stopped reading all the Christian bookstore books, and simply began reading God's Word with no other influence other than the Holy Spirit & the time tested and proven Matthew Henry commentary.

Didnt take long to see the deception for what it was.

Krispy

 2007/11/19 11:35
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 319


 Re:

Quote:
I stopped reading all the Christian bookstore books, and simply began reading God's Word with no other influence other than the Holy Spirit & the time tested and proven Matthew Henry commentary.



If only more of us believers would do this!

From my own experience though I know why it's difficult. Biblical teaching doesn't appeal to our carnal nature, but if we persist and don't take our eyes off Christ and allow God to deal with us we start to see the true deep eternal wonders of the Bible which are better than anything in this world. Real secret pearls.

I have to admit I listened to Joel Osteen. I hope he's born again, but if he is he must be quite immature in the faith and definitely shouldn't be on a platform. He does speak a lot of sense though. If we just applied his methods in our service for God rather than trying to become chief executive of the company we work for............. but then I look at the vast sums his ministry makes and the way he misquotes Scripture etc etc and I just don't know. Leave it with God I say.

Krispy, it's wonderful how God opened your eyes brother. Enjoy those pearls!




_________________
David

 2007/11/19 12:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Leave it with God I say.



Mark and avoid him as a false teacher and minister of the devil I say in all sincerity. He is a minister of satan and the epitimy of our babylonian american 'church' system. Run for your life from such teachers and their teachings.

This is anti-christ. No 666 needed, just visit lakewood.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/11/19 12:37









 Re:

This among other things seem to be missing in the Prosperity Gospel.

John 18:36
a. Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:



1 John 2:
15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 4:
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, [u][b]having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.[/b][/u]

Love in Christ
Katy-Did



 2007/11/19 12:41









 Re:

I was watching the Benny Hinn telecast on Youtube "fleecing the flock" and one of the comments given by a user was:

Quote:
This man and his gospel is why Christianity is a joke

Men like Benny Hinn are making it hard for the spreading of the gospel. When I mention Jesus Christ to people, they turn away.

Yes these false preachers are being exposed but at what cost to those who bear the truth? What a mess.

Thanks Mike for that great post, I can relate to everything you have said.

 2007/11/19 13:16









 Re:

Quote:
If anybody reads the Bible and has the Holy Spirit as their Teacher, they will soon realize that the prosperity gospel is a terrible deception.

I know of one man in this city that follows the prosperity movement, especially Hagin and Copeland, he's hardcore.

He knows his bible inside and out, and he has the holy Spirit indwelling. He would instantly agree with you regarding your statement. The deception is more deceiving than we think. It closely hovers along with truth and like a intricate web it's tricky to separate. The one of the ways for these people and ministries to see the light is like a stock market crash, they have to fall and fall big time.

He used to be just a regular Pentecostal, then got into the WOF teachings. I used to fellowship with him, but he knows that I am against the WOF thus he doesn't fellowship with me anymore.

 2007/11/19 13:29
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

Compliments wrote:The deception is more deceiving than we think. It closely hovers along with truth and like a intricate web it's tricky to separate.

My take on all this is that these guys built an alter to that revelation. Its the scriptures that say give and shall be given you, good measure, pressed down that give these guys the leverage in exhorting the sheep to give. Its truth, its in the bible, but they live there. To focus so much on one aspect of the truth can lead you to error because you neglect the other parts of the truth where its self sacrifice and service to the king that is important, not million dollar jets and homes.

My belief is that somewhere along the lines the speaking to this mountain and casting it into the sea became a means to personal financial gain and not expanding the kingdom of God. Where the blessings that God does give are for ourselves and not for others. Could God give me a million and trust that I would not spend it prodigally on myself? It seems that the only reason, according to these folk, that God would do that is because he wants you blessed. Not that he might want you to give it all away to someone else.

Like I've said before God does bless us, in every area of our lives, but he also asks us to pick up our cross daily and follow him. From what i have heard from these guys, you never hear that. The message of the cross is the message which is part and parcel of what it means to be a Christian. Its not fun and its not something that we in our natural selves would want to embrace.

Just a quick note : You can't crucify yourself, its something that other people and circumstances can only achieve.


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2007/11/19 14:46Profile





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