| Poster | Thread | Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791
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roaringlamb wrote:Quote:
Furthermore, when/where is s this so called rebirth (being in limbo) in which one is an unsaved born again person?
1John 3:9, 1John 4:7, 1John 5:1, 1John 5:4, 1John 5:18.
The rebirth may be unknown to us, or it may be. But the bottom line is that after we are given life, we will believe.
You can not get around the fact that if what you are saying is true, one must be saved in order to believe.
Where is it in Scripture that we must have life in order to believe?
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If "unregenerate man"(dead man) could do evil but doesnt because of his conscience (this unregenerate man is restrained by himself, and not some outside force), then "unregenerate" man is making a moral decision by his own free will.
Even a man who restrains himself because of conscience is only verifying the marred image of God he carries, and thus further condemns him,if he will not repent.
The point is that he restrained himself making a moral decision by his own free will. Accepting Chrisy is a moral decision, therefore he can choose Christ with out, first, being made alive.
This whole Idea contradicts Sctripture:
John 5:24-25 [color=990000]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[b]:25[/b] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.[/color]
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And no he is not off the hook because he cannot on his own as he was born a debtor to God,
How could one be born a debtor before one has sinned?
Man's moral decisions are based upon his the state of his heart. If a man is bound by sin, he will only make sinful decisions, that is all he can do.
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Man's moral decisions are based upon his the state of his heart. If a man is bound by sin, he will only make sinful decisions, that is all he can do.
It surly is not a sinful decision to give ones life for another or to risk with deat ones own life, this is seen in "the dead" in emergencies.
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I fear for you if you only believe the Gospel is moral.
Do not. You must be so heeped into your theology that you will not understand. I never imply that the Gospel is moral. It is life and/or death; salvation.
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Even Paul says that the Law is spiritual, and he goes on to say, "but I am carnal, sold under sin."
Notice that He said, "sold under sin" Christians are not "sold under sin" He was refering to his pre-convertion.
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Because this life alone comes from God, God receives all glory, and man is humbled by the mercy of God. There is no room for man to think that he had something to do with his salvation.
Chooseing is not anything to boast.
Who would boast in recieving a free meal when they brought the circumstances on themselves to need the free meal?
I remember when I was in need and someone gave me all the money in their wallet, I was VERY humbled to reciev. No proud man would ever accept that.
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I think the majority of what you say is commands that natural man can keep are nothing more than statements God has made, but they do not imply ability. Consider, "if you will be perfect, go and sell all you have, and come follow me."
So by your thinking, I could sell my house, and my car, and all I own, and have righteousness before God. Not only that, I have the ability to do this, and I don't really need anyone to atone for my sin, because I am doing what is required of me morally.
You forgot the "come follow me."
That is the relationship part that gives life, that comes because of the atonemenmt.
Youo never seem to understand that relationship with Christ is what gives life. You always seem to think that it is only what Christ does.
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What you fail to see is that if the heart is not changed, and born of God, they are not Christians.
The relationship with Christ is what changes the heart. My heart was still black with sin after I put my trust in Christ and what He did on the cross.
I took me a while for my heart to change.
He forgave me even though I stumbled the first years with marijuana while being a young chistian.
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You do not understand the depth of sin that needs to be done away with, and that is why you can say that man is moral, and can make a "decision" for Christ at any time he wishes.
Speek for your self, I do "understand the depth of sin that needs to be done away with", you will just never listen to me enough before I have a chance to exlaine that far.
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and that is why you can say that man is moral, and can make a "decision" for Christ at any time he wishes.
Opposing this is how you make god into a tyrant. |
|  2007/11/15 14:58 | Profile | Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
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Jeff wrote,
""It will never make any sence; you think that Jesus's faith in Himself or His faith in the Father is what saves you.
The faith of Christ is His faith only(If God has faith) just like I can not give my faith to anyone els, they must have there own. No one can use anothers faith. Faith is a concept of the mind it can not be tranfered""
Then you have never understood the birthing of Christ in you. You have another's life in you that is Jesus Christ born again in you by the Father. You are a new creature in Christ Jesus.
A creature that is now a son of the Most High God. You have the nature of God Himself in you and it is His Faith that you now live your life by. You may not know it yet, but when you have the revelation of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, which must come from God, you will understand all this perfectly.
What does this scripture say? Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And this: Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
And this: Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Who's working is in you and who are you laboring for?
You are not perfect unless you have the in Christ position. If you don't have the Spirit of Christ born in you, you are none of His. It happened at Pentecost, both The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit was born in them. They did not know it, that is why Paul was chosen, to bring this mystery to light. It truly is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Your Spirit is now the Spirit of Christ who rules over your soul and body. So what is our spiritual service to God? Romans 12:1-5 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Who's body are we and who's mind are to renew our mind to? How? "according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." This faith is especially relying on Christ for salvation, it come with the package. Ephesians 2:8-16 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Making out of each of us one new man from Two, by Himself and us becoming One. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".
Christ liveth in me and you: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2007/11/16 0:24 | Profile |
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