One always referes to the first part of John 3 when they talk about this so called regeneration
John 3 has nothing to do with regeneration/rebirth, John 3 talks about being "born from above", they are two totally different words.

Furthermore, "born from above" is γεννηθη ἄνωθεν.
"Born again" is actualy αναγεννάω, which is different from the word "regeneration" (παλιγγενεσία).

So, you have three words:
παλιγγενεσία = rebirth/Regeneration
γεννηθη ἄνωθεν = Born from above.
αναγεννάω = Born again

[b]Titus 3:5[/b] [color=990000]not by works in righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,[/color]
In other words: Not by good works, but according to His mercy, being rebirthed(new again) by the washing from sin with the Holy Spirits renovation, that is how we are saved.

[b]1 Peter 1:23[/b] [color=990000]Being born again(begotten again), not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abides for ever.[/color]
In other words: We have eternal life(born again) by incorruptible Seed(God as our Father).

The word "seed" is Greek "spora": a sowing, that is by implication, a descent from parents.
If one is "born again", one has God as his own Father now, and therefore, already save.

John 3 is saying one must be "born [b]from above[/b]" he cannot see the kingdom of God.

So, which word is that so called rebirth (being in limbo) in which one is an unsaved born again person?

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Benjamin Valentine

1Pet. 1:22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because
“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the LORD endures forever.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you. 1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,


The source that renews the heart and mind is the word of God. It is by obeying the truth through the Spirit that one is enabled to purify one's soul. The flesh is as grass, it dies but the word of the Lord endures forever. So therefore desire the pure milk of the word....for it is incorruptible.

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

God speaking to man is the grace upon which faith is sown in the hearts of those who hear...

Proverbs 1:

23 Turn at my rebuke;
Surely I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

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Jeff Marshalek

Ron Bailey is an expert in greek and is out of the country for the next 2 weeks, when he returns ask him, I'm sure he'll be able to clear this up for you. As for myself I'm no greek anything, sorry can't help you.

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D.Miller

Hi Logic...

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Christopher

Chris said

This is part of a reply I am working on for another thread, but it fits perfectly here.

Gennao

A study of the Greek word gennao (Strong's 1080).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Greek Dictionary of the New Testament:
"1080. gennao ... to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: —bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring."

Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature:
"gennao 1. beget — a. (literally) become the father of. (Passive) be begotten — that which is conceived in her is of the Spirit — Matthew 1:20 (of that which is unborn). Here the male principle is introduced."

The New Lexicon Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language:
"begotten ... past [tense] of BEGET."

Webster's Third New International Dictionary:
"beget ... to make (a woman) pregnant."

Webster's New Dictionary of Synonyms:
"Beget, get, and sire imply the procreating act of the male parent."

Shorter Oxford Dictionary:
"beget 2b. GET (with child) —1611."

Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:
"synonym 1: one of two or more words or expressions that have the same or nearly the same meaning."

J. I. Rodale, The Synonym Finder:
"beget ... father, sire, procreate, generate, engender, get; breed, propagate, reproduce, spawn; impregnate, Biology fecundate, Biology fertilize."
"conceive ... beget, procreate, father, sire; generate, engender, propagate, reproduce; become impregnated, become pregnant, become fertilized, come with child."
"impregnate ... inseminate, make pregnant, get with child or young, Slang knock up; fertilize, fructify, make fruitful, fecundate; beget, create, procreated, engender, generate."
"engender ... beget, create, procreate, father, sire, sow the seeds of, conceive."

Roget's International Thesaurus:
"169.8 procreate, generate, breed, beget, get, engender."
"169.10 fertilize, fructify, fecundate, fecundify; impregnate, inseminate, spermatize; get with child or young; pollinate or pollinize."
"169.18 pregnant, enceinte [French], with child or young, in the family way [informal], gestating, breeding, teeming, parturient; ... carrying a fetus or embryo; ... superimpregnated."

Unless otherwise noted, the verses are the King James Version translations of the Greek word gennao, and represent every occurrence of gennao in the New Testament.

Matthew 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived [YLT: was begotten] in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mark 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee [YLT: the holy-begotten thing] shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 1:57 Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son.

Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born [YLT, Fenton: begotten], not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

John 9:19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.

John 9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

John 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 7:8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

Acts 7:20 In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in his father's house three months:
21 And when he was cast out, Pharaoh's daughter took him up, and nourished him for her own son.

Acts 7:29 Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Acts 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Acts 22:27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.
28 And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born.

Romans 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender [YLT: beget] strifes.

Philemon 1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten [YLT: did beget] in my bonds:
11 Which in time past was to thee unprofitable, but now profitable to thee and to me:
12 Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels:
13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:
14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang [YLT: were begotten] there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Hebrews 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made [RSV: born] to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born [YLT: hath been begotten] of him.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born [YLT: hath been begotten] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born [YLT: hath been begotten] of God.

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born [YLT: hath been begotten] of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born [YLT: hath been begotten] of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born [YLT: begotten] of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born [YLT: hath been begotten] of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

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patrick heaviside

Now we know that we had nothing to do with our natural birth, and Scripture alludes to our Spiritual being the same.

Consider 1 John 5:1
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Now here is where Greek does become necessary.

We know that in Greek there is no word for "whosoever", rather it is better understood as "all those who".

“Believes” is in the present tense, whereas “born” is in the perfect. We could paraphrase it:.. “Whoever now believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God in the past with the result that he is now in a state of spiritual life.”

From this we see that the Spiritual birth, or regeneration which is the means of Spiritual life by changing us from "dead in sin" to "alive in Christ" comes prior to faith, and that faith is a fruit of the new creation which has been born of God.

Now for the phrase "born of God", you will find that it is unique to the Epistles of John. It appears five times, and always uses the Greek word "ek" for the word "of". Ek means out of, or out from. It does not in the slightest show that the birth is something we do, or cooperate with.

Again I refer you all back to your natural birth, and how much control you had over it.

It is necessary for the new birth to be from God alone as we are dead in sin, and He must quicken, or give life to us. I have yet to see a corpse revive itself, or have a will to cooperate with those who are resuscitating it.

God gives birth to whom He will when He will, and this why Jesus said that the Spirit was like the wind. The wind cannot be grasped in our hands, or made to bow to our demands, it blows when it wishes.

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patrick heaviside