In a way, it is unfortunate that Paul Washer's brief commentary on Joel Osteen made the headlines about this sermon. The blip about "Your Best Life Now" should not distract us from the greater message here.
Washer is pointing out that many ministries eroneously expect dead men to behave as living men, whether through pop-psychology or through poor theology. The cheap grace self-esteem preachers are not the only ones committing this crucial error. Washer's point is that the Gospel doesn't begin with a new behavior but with a new nature.
He says; "Salvation is a supernatural work of God...I will take out your dead stony heart and I will replace it with a heart of flesh."(59:02)
"You think that somehow a will can act independently of nature...that's one of (our) greatest problems. Will is a slave to the nature. That is why a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. You see, men do according to their nature. When you change a man's nature, he becomes a new creature."(104:46)
Washer wasn't so much concerned with Oslteen, as he was with ontology...our understanding (or misunderstanding) of the nature of our being. For him, he believes that the treasure of salvation is in the ontological regeneration of a man and that preaching behavioral transformation only is mere fool's gold.
Once again I am brought to an axiom I am finding more and more to be the single most salient lesson I have learned here at SI: before a thing can do, it must be. ( aka Bailey's Bottom Line :-) ) There is a mountain of theology packed into that little mustard seed. Sometimes the hardest truths may elude us if we pass too quickly by the simplest ones.
| 2007/11/12 18:27||Profile|
Great response, Compton. Thanks.
| 2007/11/12 22:13||Profile|
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Quote:Yes, your right Jim, Osteen is a devil and represents the prophets of Baal. :-?
let us be careful that our perceived position of rightness does not lead us to becoming mockers of those that have 'missed' it.
Speaking out against the devils who who make the earth drunk with the wine of their fornications is not mockery... although
1 Kings 18:
27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened." 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.
In Christ - Jim
Absolutely amazing, this is playing the man and know one says anything. Maybe because it suits our theological bent, not necessarily because its right.
Friends, lets be careful, lets tread carefully on such matters, God searches our hearts as much as he does Olsteen. Lets be found to be dividing accurately between flesh and spirit.
Personally, I found washers style ungracious and angry. Some would say its 'unction' from the Lord, but I don't know so much. In saying that though, he does speak some truth and he is a man of God, hence I take it as such.
Lets prayerfully consider these things.
| 2007/11/13 0:29||Profile|
before a thing can do, it must be
What does this mean?!
| 2007/11/13 8:26|
| Re: Thank you|
I don't think that the apostle Paul or Jesus Himself would be critical of Paul Washer's holy anger over the attempted hijacking of the Gospel by the money changers. If Osteen is preaching another Gospel, let him be accursed. That is not my opinion, it is God's. Where is our radical militance in a time of spiritual war. The battle rages and we are at rest in Zion.
| 2007/11/13 8:34||Profile|
Joel Osteen doesn't believe Jesus is the only way:
This is from an interview with Larry King:
KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?
OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...
KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
You can read the whole thing here:
| 2007/11/13 8:39|
Yes, your right Jim, Osteen is a devil and represents the prophets of Baal.
Yes he is, you are correct. From such withdraw thyself.
In Christ - Jim
| 2007/11/13 8:56|
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Friends, these things should break our hearts. He stumbled on the King show and he acknowledged it as being such. He was tested and he failed that test and I don't think that there is a day where he doesn't regret it. God was dealing with the man and refining his faith in these matters.
We will all stand before God to give an account for every idle word that we have spoken, the only difference is that most of his are recorded for posterity's sake.
Pray for him, pray for his family, pray for his church that Jesus will become the all consuming passion of their hearts.
Pray, pray let us ask the Lord, spare your people oh God. Grant these leaders wisdom and grace.
| 2007/11/13 9:26||Profile|
Friends, these things should break our hearts. He stumbled on the King show and he acknowledged it as being such.
I know nothing about that. I only know word for word what he said here. If he takes back what he said and acknowledges Jesus as the only way than I'm fine with that. Where or when though did he ever say that?
If I ever made a horrible statement such as that I would proclaim it on the rooftops that Jesus is the only way until my dying day!
I would also ask Larry King to have me back on again just to clear things up.
Every sermon I would ever preach would be on Jesus being the only way!
| 2007/11/13 9:43|
Friends, these things should break our hearts.
Brother, it breaks my heart that babylon has spread her filth as far as south africa. These men are not "stumbling saints", they are ministers of the devil parading as angels of light. They preach another gospel that is designed to damn the souls of men by appealing to their fleshly lust and desires and by drowning them with a love for money.
As you keep saying, we will all give account for our words... let us be careful of proclaiming a minister of satan to be a minister of our holy God. We will answer for such.
In Christ - Jim
| 2007/11/13 9:49|