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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : What do you think about Pres. Bush and this War in Iraq?

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moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: patriotism

I have been sitting on and praying over this post all day. I know I am a bit hmmmm, zealous, a bit RADICAL for Jesus. hee hee I am not ashamed of this!

Just as He is jealous over me and you, I am fiercly jealous over Him. I don't like anyone or anything get the glory that He alone deserves.

May He reign gloriously forever and ever! May we all be radically sold out for Him alone!

in Him, chanin


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Chanin

 2004/5/26 22:19Profile
earnestlycontend
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 69
Flinstone, GA

 Re:

Chanin,
I agree with part of what you're saying. I do think our sin, pride, and careless wealth stinks in the sight of God.

Without getting into my many objections to what you're saying, let me ask, as a Christian, who will you vote for in Nov.? I don't think it's our prerogative to sit by and just let the world go by. As Christians, I think we're obligated to make the best of the situations put before us even in politics. Sitting the fence is not an option.

So, Bush or Kerry?

Can a Christian vote for John Kerry with the stances he takes on abortion, homosexual rights, and euthanasia?

I may not agree with every one of Bush's decisions, but I believe he is much better than the alternative.

And Yes, not to be argumentative, though, I am thankful to be an American. I believe it's our God-given duty and privelege to love our land and people and to continually hold our nation before God. As Americans, I think we neglect our duties to the Lord if in our own homeland we don't find a commitment to love and pray for our country. Can we really carry a burden for our country if we don't love it? Would God be pleased with us if we leave off our position as citizens and don't pray?

It reminds me of Paul's nationalism when he said that he could wish himself accursed for his kinsmen according to the flesh... Rom. 9:1-5

Kendal


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Kendal Shipley

 2004/5/26 22:44Profile
rocklife
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Joined: 2004/4/1
Posts: 323
usa

 Re:

I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what is the right-wing label about?

Is right wing the Christian morals? Republican?


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Jina

 2004/5/27 1:03Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
So, Bush or Kerry?


Hmmm neither.. :-P ohh yea im Canadian that's why :-? well you never know 'Canada could be the next american state!'


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/5/27 1:15Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Hmmm neither.. ohh yea im Canadian that's why well you never know 'Canada could be the next american state!'



I think Mr Blair may be ahead of you in the queue. ;-)


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Ron Bailey

 2004/5/27 8:54Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


Kendal you said:


((( As Christians, I think we're obligated to make the best of the situations put before us even in politics. Sitting the fence is not an option.

So, Bush or Kerry?

Can a Christian vote for John Kerry with the stances he takes on abortion, homosexual rights, and euthanasia?

I may not agree with every one of Bush's decisions, but I believe he is much better than the alternative. )))


Now see, these are the same questions I ask myself ... As Christians are we supposed to sit idly by and watch our country go to hell in a hand basket? ... Didn't Christ say to obey the laws of the land, as long as they don't over rule His own? ... We all know that voting for the most part is a choice between the lesser of two evils, but shouldn't we as Christians be a part of making the better choice ... In fact shouldn't we as Christians be mobilized as the mega voting block that we are, and use the laws of the land to promote Christian candidates and ideals? ... It was the mobilization of the Christian right that greatly aided Pres. Reagan to office ... It was the mobilization, curried by now Pres. G.W. Bush, that was totally responsible for getting his dad elected ... And it was the Christian right that was greatly responsible for our current Presidents election (although many say he stole it) ... Sure Jesus has given us the commision to proclaim His gospel, but I personally believe that every Christian in a land that grants them a right to vote, should do so ... We all know the Revelation is gonna happen, but we can be resisters to apocalypse both spiritually and politically ... There were a few old testament saints whose presence even in totally heathen governments benefited those governments/societys greatly ... We are the salt, and light of the earth!


I was born in the still conservative 1950's, so I was age 10-19 during the free wheeling, rule breaking 60's ... I remember that heathen devil atheist Madelaine Murry O'Hare, I remember when the pledge of allegiance and prayer was eradicated from public schools, and I remember my seperatist Jehovah Witness parents predicting the beginning of doom for America, but I don't remember any major organized Christian outcry about it ... Perhaps it was because so many took the stance of Christ's kingdom being no part of this world, or perhaps many were too busy being wrapped up in their own little insular lives to SEE the evil approaching, or perhaps many were afraid to organize and get involved against the seperation of church and state, but whichever the reason evil triumphed big time!


There was no major counteractive Christian outcry until the late 70's into the 80's when Jerry Falwell founded The Moral Majority, of which I was a part and member, the beginning of what's now known as The Christian Right, mind you that the Left hates so much ... That orginization was started because in just 10 -15 years the moral/ethical decline in America was drastic, and I remember thinking at age 30 how/why did the Christian's back then allow satan to get such a stronghold in our society? ... Why didn't they rise up in holy anger? ... But alas, by the time Brother Falwell made his move satan was already entrenched in America ... Thus today.


I believe in being a participant in the society, nation God has placed me in from the voting in of public officials to the boycotting against the Porn shop that wants to set up it's vile business in my township.

So Kendal for me it's Bush all the way, and not because I'm a Republican for I'm an Independent, but for all the reasons you mentioned ... I'll not stand by on my watch as mature Christians did in the 60's and allow satan to drag us down one more inch without a fight both spiritually and politically ... I know that Christ is our highest allegience (God), (and) then there's allegience to (country) according to:

Rom.13 [1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. [6] For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing ... Amen

 2004/5/27 11:55Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Rocklife wrote:

Quote:
I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but what is the right-wing label about?

Is right wing the Christian morals? Republican?



The Republican Party would not have enough people to vote them into office were it not for a "Astro Turf roots political movements." Seed money for the formation of the Moral Majority in the late 70's and the Christian Coalition of the early 90's did not come from people like you and I. It came from money's spent by the Republican Party. The values of those who run the Republican Party are primarily concerned with power and money. So few American's share the same ideals of these elite. The elite know they could never win an election by promoting their values. So they must build coalitions which will give them the votes. So they give lip service to fool many people who profess to be Christian.

Everyone knows how many times the words, "weapons of mass destruction," were brainwashed into our minds. The events of 911 were a tradgedy no doubt. Three thousand lives were lost and billions upon billions of dollars disapeared with a wink of an eye. Yet what about the million children that were murdered that year. Did this administration attempt to brain wash the public on this issue?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/5/27 12:13Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: brainwash

Jeff, I think I know what you are touching on here.

I think that this end time govt. system will end up seperating the wheat from the tares. Scary! So much deception- only a few will catch on.

in him, chanin


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Chanin

 2004/5/27 12:37Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Rocklife your ? about The Christian Right ...



This two sites will help answer some of your questions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

http://www.cc.org/ - Christian Coalition


 2004/5/27 13:37Profile
Matthew2323
Member



Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re:

Thank you for the clarification about love vs. pride in regards to nationalism.

To me, a patriot is one who loves his country because he sees it as a gift from God. When I say I love America, I mean that looking back at our history, we can all see the hand of Providence and that is something to cherish.

To love my country in to love the people and ideals upon which it was founded, godly men and women seeking the freedom to worship God in a land where there was no tyranny and (at the time) a small influence of evil.

The fact that God has blessed this country so much means a great deal to me. The freedom I enjoy today cost many people their lives (and freedom).

To pray for revival in America is an act of patriotism. I see it as obedience to both the first and second great commandments. I long to see God glorified and worshiped in spirit and in truth in a land that he has blessed (and been patient with) for so long; so I pray for revival. I care about the spiritual (and physical) well being of my fellow countrymen; so I pray for revival.

To love one's country is not having a double mind or a divided heart, as long as the love of God is first!

I am devoted to my wife, our children, our local church and the brothers I fellowship with. Obeying the second great commandment is a fruit of obeying the first great commandment. (And yes, these loves can become idolatry if loved in the incorrect order.) If the pagan and the backslidden commit idolatry with their patriotism, pray for them! (This is probably the least of their problems, however.)

America is a country whose government was founded on Biblical principles. Our founders were influenced by the writings of Augustine, John Calvin, John Knox and other godly men who sought to pattern human government from a biblical worldview.

The exegetical writings of the Reformers show that there is biblical justification for declaring war against tyrants. Please read the sermon, Defensive War in a Just Cause Sinless preached in 1775. (You will have to download a pdf.)
[url=http://www.chalcedon.org/counsel/BackIssues2003.htm]Defensive War[/url]

The government's role is to protect the Church (physically). Our role is to protect the government with prayer (and service as needed).

To turn the other cheek is not applicable. That was a personal insult, not a physical threat to their person, family or nation. The Bible clearly instructs men that it is their duty to protect (physically) these three entities.

Do you think terrorists respond to reason? No! We are facing modern-day Hamans who demonically desire to destroy our nation. We need to let the proper channels fight the physical war while we Christians join the ancient Mordecai in supplication to the Sovereign Lord to intercede for our nation.

For such a time as this. . .

Is the threat of the terrorists any less real than the threat of Haman? If not, will you respond like Moses, Daniel, Jeremiah, Paul and Jesus and intercede for our land? Please prayerfully consider how you should respond.

God bless,
Matthew

PS Rahman you are correct. Christians must vote for those whose policies align closest with the Bible. It is a holy duty to vote in accordance with the Word. We will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. What (if anything) will be on your ballot when God holds it in front of you and calls you to account for your voting history?


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Matthew

 2004/5/27 14:57Profile





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