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Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 The Church in America: Are We All Smoke But No Fire? ...



--- The following is something that i wrote down, but would have not posted except i believe He gave me a confirmation to go on and do so via these statements that bro. Robert made over on the thread ...

[b]Revival Conference[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=20437&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go


[b]Bro. Robert said,
"I am come to send FIRE!, Jesus said. What good are we if we have no FIRE?
The conference, for me, was a time of God putting me back into the Fire. What good am I to anyone if I have no Fire? "[/b]


... But by His grace, mercy and Power, even tho He knows i'd much rather just coast on out to the end of this year and never broach the subject of REVIVAL again here on SI, He is good in this prompting via bro. Robert's statements in that He knows that at this point i'm tired of anything that has to do with the subject, and He knows why (God knows i tell Him enuf) ... i make no excuses to anyone who may take me to task that if my mission is of Him i should'nt be tired ... i should'nt be, but God knows i am ... And just when i think i could comfortably slip into complacency (which is why bro Currin's message meant so much to me) He'll reignite me anew with such a combustible statement as "What good am I to anyone if I have no Fire?"... And i think, "Certainly no good to God" ... Anyhow ...

i heard the other day someone say to another, "You're all smoke and no fire" ... Ouch! ... Then (i believe) our Lord instantly dawned on me that anology to much of we the Church here in America ... Tho certainly not the Book of Acts early church apparent, Holy Ghost fire unto attainment of salvation is still present even in the modern day Body, because there's also another adage: "Where there's smoke there's fire", but without the full blown blazing of Holy Ghost fire all else that is necessary in the following of salvation such as the Holy Ghost power of saints in conquering and overcoming in our Christian walk is lacking, perhaps because the ultimate power of the saint, the Church, God the Holy Ghost, has been damped down by us so that we're smoldering sorta speak, sort of like being a half fire, a lukewarm fire, when Christ said He'd rather us be totally "ablaze" or "not on fire at all" ... We've become like a "smokescreen", where our smoke is more visible than the fire Who's supposed to be consuming us ...

i was going to work one day and an old factory was blazing, the street was cut off, firemen and police everywhere, and there was that crowd that Ravenhill spoke of spiritually regarding REVIVAL that, "No one has to advertise a fire" ... Smoke may cause concern, draw the curious, but an actual all out fire draws a crowd forthwith ... i looked up the word;

[b]SMOLDER:
1: to burn sluggishly, without flame, and often with much smoke ...
2: to exist in a state of suppressed activity ...[/b]

Seems to me the first definition defines a lot of us saints and therefore much of the congregations we attend, we look like we're on fire because we're full of smoke, but alas that's because we're so damped down by the waters (cares and snares) of this world that Holy Ghost can't consume us like He wants to to the glory of God the Father by our lifting up of His Lamb ... In my own congregational setting i look around at all the activity, the massive and impressive man centered smoke, but it's so obvious that we're not on fire with THE POWER of God because of so much defeatedness in the lives of the saints ... Outwardly many are quick to robotically retort "I'm blessed", but as bro Ironman said really are living lives of quiet desperation ... All smoke, but no fire ...

The second definition speaks to me of what we saints individually, and corporately, do to Holy Spirit in our lives ... We relegate Him to "existing in a state of suppressed activity" in ourselves, homes, churches, etc ... We "damp" ourselves down, so that His burning of us is more tolerable to ourselves and more acceptable to others around us, in particular other saints, and so we quench Him, and grieve Him, into indwelling within us yes, but supressed, which makes
us suppressed ...

By the time i came back home from work that same day the fire had seemingly been quenched, but i could still smell in the air that it wasn't dead, i could smell it smoldering ... The very next day sure nuff the street was blocked off again because the fire had reignited to finish off what it had started ... As long as there's something still there that a fire need to consume it can re-ignite, in our case spiritually applies the same principal and tho we're only smoldering now, soon and very soon i both hope and pray, Holy Ghost is about to re-ignite us from our long smoldering back again into a blazing fire from which He will consume everything that is not of our Lord Jesus Christ from amongst us, with no possiblity of our being re-damped down anew from the waters (cares and snares) of this world because the chief care and snare (our idol of mammon and economy) will be toppled face down in the dust ...

In light of my own experience with REVIVAL and it's seeking, and that most recently of SI, to use bro Mike's word some of the "guff" one has to take regarding the seeking of REVIVAL can be grievous ... It can become very discouraging the disparagement of other saints when one is convinced that the quest for REVIVAL (re-ignition) is of Him working in an apparent few, outward in hopes of the catching on of the majority that we're ALL in dire need of seeking His feet and face in a massive outpouring of pro-active repentance for allowing ourselves to become comfortably "all smoke and no fire" ...

[b]Therefore as bro Robert asked, "What good are we if we have no FIRE?" ...

Luke.3
[16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Acts.2
[1] And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
[2] And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,

1Cor.3
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Heb.12
[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

Rev. 3
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
[21] To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
[22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.[/b]

 2007/11/7 11:09Profile
c52
Member



Joined: 2006/12/31
Posts: 44
Loveland, Co. USA

 Re: The Church in America: Are We All Smoke But No Fire? ...

Rahman you are being so kind. I think it was Warren Wiersbe that said, "if the Holy Spirit moved out of the churches in the usa, hardly anyone would notice". Sad, huh?
Personally I have yet to find a "Philadelphia", or even a "Smyrna". Oh well....there is one body, and one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all....
Thanks Rahman, no one likes to talk about this issue....c


_________________
Charles H Holston

 2007/11/7 22:20Profile









 Re:

I was trying to find a good place to post this. Today at work God spoke to my heart. I had a desire in my heart and God told me He was going to bring it to pass. I kept pushing it aside thinking it was all me and just smoke and come to find out it wasn't. I kept throwing it on the back burner and it kept coming back. I thought "that can't happen" and I would throw it on the back burner again.It was way too good to be true. Just like when Sarah laughed when the Lord said whe was going to have a child. I believed God when He told me but it was so wonderful when He told me it would happen I laughed inside.

I know some people are going to think "oh she's lost it!" LOL, but I know it was God. I have been in such praise lately and things happen when your praising the Lord :-) . I just got done posting it on my blog just in case I forget what God told me.

Anyhow, just thought I would share...Here I thought it was all smoke but God was kindeling a fire!

Psalm 37:4
Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart


 2007/11/8 0:20
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Church in America: Are We All Smoke But No Fire? ...



c52 you wrote;
"Rahman you are being so kind. I think it was Warren Wiersbe that said, "if the Holy Spirit moved out of the churches in the usa, hardly anyone would notice". Sad, huh?"

--- You know what it is c52, it's that i'm so concerned about the state of the Body here in the U.S. ... So often i don't want to be, so often i really wish that i wasn't, but i am, and i've come to believe over the past two decades that it's a concern that Holy Spirit has burdened me with, and He knows how much i've tried to escape it ... It just seems so huge a concern for one person sometimes that i have to deliberately noy allow myself to think of it in prayer because it just seems way so massive an encompassing, so often it just doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever but my spirit man keeps coming back to actually how God operates ... Scripture tells us He can't be grasped by logic, that it takes "faith" to please Him, that oxymoronical appearing "assured expectation of things hoped for, and evidence of things not seen" ...

See it would be totally "sad" to me if it wasn't for "hardly anyone would notice" ... Those who make up that small band of "noticers" is where not only do i think the hope lies, but i truly believe are called of God to be His little children in the crowd who points out that our man made, and man centered, "smoke" is not at all about Him and kingdom building, but moreso about us and personal empire building at all levels ... In essence the "noticers" are the "little ones" who care nothing about wanting to appear as part of the sophisticated group, but just call things as they see them (via Holy Ghost and Scripture) and point out that the emperor (leadership) are really as buck naked as a Laodicean, and subsequently the crowd (congregation) also as they are just going along with the "emperor" because they don't want to appear as not being within the sphere sophistication ... i believe there's so many dampners that have been placed on the Body since the early church, begining first with the intial usurption over Holy Spirit as leader by the church of Rome, then all the Protestant denominations after ... It's been my experience that many saints follow their "denoms" and what they say way more closely than they follow Christ and what He says and are quick to indentify themselves by their denoms way before just saying "i'm a Christian" ...

All i still hear from Holy Spirit is, "Keep praying", so i do because Lord knows there's nothing apart intercession toward "removing yonder mountain" that i can do ---

c52 you wrote;
"Personally I have yet to find a "Philadelphia", or even a "Smyrna". "

--- i believe there are Smyrna's all around the world where saints are actually being persecuted and are impoverished, i would even think that there are probably some Smyrna type churches even here in the U.S., but amen on my also not knowing any true "Philadelphia" type, specifically in the capacity of a Christ driven brotherly love which i think has become such a hard thing for we Americans who've become so increasingly individualistic and group polarized ... Of all the people on the planet God's people are supposed to blaze in our reflection of the fire of His love, but instead that too is pretty much smoke, and is something that i too am still so guilty of ... i'm not really a very "out-going" person, but all i keep hearing Holy Spirit witness in my spirit is to "go out in the love, grace, mercy and power of Christ Jesus" ... Ughhhh ... You'd think He'd want to send forth a choleric/extrovert in represention, but no He'd rather pick out the exact opposite - a melancolic/introvert ... Talk about picking the weak :-? ---

c52 you wrote;
"Oh well....there is one body, and one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all...."

--- Amen ... He said it ... i believe it ... regardless of how far from that mark it looks like to date ...

You know just this morning in prayer i was speaking (pleading actually) to our Lord about this, especially in light of the controversial subject of REVIVAL, and in particular regarding some of the fallout i've read in some threads about SI's recent Revival Conference from which the following scripture came to mind ...

[b]1Cor.14
[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.[/b]

It seems to me like there's ever increasing confusion, and so little peace, amongst all the churches of the saints (as well as the saints ourselves) ... Christ said the proof of our being of Him should be indicated by the love we have for one another in reflection of the love between He and the Father ... Seems many times that what we saints/churches do best is backbite, bicker and fight amongst ourselves ... It's a good thing that i know as many as He loves He rebukes and chastens, Lord knows we're in much need of some re-disciplining

Blessings in the most Holy Name of JESUS! :-D ---


 2007/11/8 10:35Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Church in America: Are We All Smoke But No Fire? ...




Hi glorytoglory ...

Thank You Jesus!!! ...

Sis i'm praising God with you ... It's a most wonderful and blessed thing to know for sure when "a thing" one has believed to be from Him is finally revealed to be of Him (fire) and not of ourselves (smoke) ...

i have a long held chief desire of my heart also, it's REVIVAL in His truest and purest sense for us ... In particular i too believe i've heard a "word" from our Lord regarding my particular congregation to occur before 2007 is done, that i was to declare it, i did, and yep folk think i've lost it (i've even entertained the thought myself but keep repenting of it because i strictly believe that's whatsoever is not of faith is sin) ...

i'm still in the Waiting Room in regards to it being revealed whether i'm live (of Him) or memorex (of myself) but praise God the wait is nearing it's end, but in the meanwhile "i'm still calling that which be not yet as though it were (Rom. 4:17) ...

i look forward to His "freeing", whatever His will ...

Rejoicing with you in His revelation of your being of His fire and not your own smoke! :knockedout: ...

Blessings in the most Holy Name of JESUS! :-D ---


 2007/11/8 10:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Rahman wrote:



Hi glorytoglory ...

Thank You Jesus!!! ...

Sis i'm praising God with you ... It's a most wonderful and blessed thing to know for sure when "a thing" one has believed to be from Him is finally revealed to be of Him (fire) and not of ourselves (smoke) ...

i have a long held chief desire of my heart also, it's REVIVAL in His truest and purest sense for us ... In particular i too believe i've heard a "word" from our Lord regarding my particular congregation to occur before 2007 is done, that i was to declare it, i did, and yep folk think i've lost it (i've even entertained the thought myself but keep repenting of it because i strictly believe that's whatsoever is not of faith is sin) ...

i'm still in the Waiting Room in regards to it being revealed whether i'm live (of Him) or memorex (of myself) but praise God the wait is nearing it's end, but in the meanwhile "i'm still calling that which be not yet as though it were (Rom. 4:17) ...

i look forward to His "freeing", whatever His will ...

Rejoicing with you in His revelation of your being of His fire and not your own smoke! :knockedout: ...

Blessings in the most Holy Name of JESUS! :-D ---





Right after God gave me that word the enemy came in like a flood. That just confirmed to me all the more it was God. The way I know I am really trusting God is to not worry about it or try to figure it out.

Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.


 2007/11/8 11:56









 Re:

I have noticed that God speaks to me ALOT at work! :-D Doesn't it seem like when you are going about your business that God speaks to you more? I know He is speaking all the time but I mean enough to where it just seems to flood your soul! :-) I was so overcome when He spoke to me. God doesn't care if your at work, when He wants to speak He speaks! :-D

I'm sure it has something to do with you being in the right place in order to get your attention so He can speak to you. For me it seems to be at work.

 2007/11/8 12:34
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Church in America: Are We All Smoke But No Fire? ...



glorytoglory you wrote;
"The way I know I am really trusting God is to not worry about it or try to figure it out. "

---Admittedly for me this has been the hard part, especially for over so long a time period ... i hate waiting, God knows, and the things i believe i heard from our Lord so long ago at the time i was sure like they'd be happening yesterday ... NOT! ... Jer. 33:3 is what i call my life verse, so inquisative about the mind of God i am ... i want to know what He knows ...

In my process after initial salvation, like Jacob i have attempted barter with Him, like Jonah i've run from Him because i didn't like His terms and have had a whale belly experienceand, and like Jeremiah have also subsequently both tried to reason with Him my way out of my believed assignment and cried a lot because i couldn't and have suffered some disdain from some fellows... i've been real guily of being weary, fretting, and have always until most recent tried to figure Him out, and over the past 20+ years have had occasion of more than one dunk in attempt to walking across the waters of the stormy sea of what i've come to call my calling of "extracarricular faith activity" in Him, but praise Him (i believe) He's sustained me thru what i can only rate as my frail and faulty performance thus far to bring me to such nearness of a life changing new dawning ... And now ....

Spiritually i can plainly see an "open door" before me, awaiting His summoning me thru ---

[b]Learning to "Rest in the Lord" or "The Waiting Room" experience ...[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10395&forum=35#81222




 2007/11/8 12:59Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 me Too sis! ...



glorytoglory you wrote;
" I have noticed that God speaks to me ALOT at work!"


Wowwww ... what you've said here just gave me Holy Ghost goose-bumps! ... Me too! ... The same experience! ... There's always a reason for His having me post something when the unction was so strong on me to do so here ... This is like a mutual confirmation! ...

i'm a draftsman by trade ... used to work on a board ... now on computer ... i'd be deep in work, alone in my thoughts about a job, and WHAM right out of the blue Holy Spirit would say something to me, i'd instantly fill up in the Spirit, and these hot tears would just well up in my eyes ... Sometimes i'd have to just go into the Men's room and sit in a stall until He was done with me ... Most times it would be these revelation about Jesus, and then at other times i'd hear of things i was to do, say, pray for, pray against, things about the Body in which He was displeased, and things about myself in His use of me in ministry, etc ...

Amen He "doesn't care if your at work, when He wants to speak He speaks!" ... i came to the conclusion awhile back that the reason we hear Him so well at work, and He chooses to talk to us there, is that our minds are so clear being focused on something constructive ... Something else tho has happened to me over the decades ... Now He can speak to me just about anywhere, as my mind certainly has become over time much more stayed/staid on/in Him ...

Bless God for this sharing sis! :-D :-P :knockedout: ---


 2007/11/8 13:03Profile









 Re: me Too sis! ...

Quote:

Rahman wrote:


glorytoglory you wrote;
" I have noticed that God speaks to me ALOT at work!"


Wowwww ... what you've said here just gave me Holy Ghost goose-bumps! ... Me too! ... The same experience! ... There's always a reason for His having me post something when the unction was so strong on me to do so here ... This is like a mutual confirmation! ...

i'm a draftsman by trade ... used to work on a board ... now on computer ... i'd be deep in work, alone in my thoughts about a job, and WHAM right out of the blue Holy Spirit would say something to me, i'd instantly fill up in the Spirit, and these hot tears would just well up in my eyes ... Sometimes i'd have to just go into the Men's room and sit in a stall until He was done with me ... Most times it would be these revelation about Jesus, and then at other times i'd hear of things i was to do, say, pray for, pray against, things about the Body in which He was displeased, and things about myself in His use of me in ministry, etc ...

Amen He "doesn't care if your at work, when He wants to speak He speaks!" ... i came to the conclusion awhile back that the reason we hear Him so well at work, and He chooses to talk to us there, is that our minds are so clear being focused on something constructive ... Something else tho has happened to me over the decades ... Now He can speak to me just about anywhere, as my mind certainly has become over time much more stayed/staid on/in Him ...

Bless God for this sharing sis! :-D :-P :knockedout: ---





Wow! LOL!!! That's the same thing that happens to me! I think it does have something to do with being focused on your work where your mind is clear. MANY times lately I have been so overcome in the spirit I have felt like I need to go on break or go to the restroom!! LOL!!!! Here I thought it was just me! :-D

It's not always all joy either like you said. Sometimes I am so broken the tears well up...

It usually happens when alot of people are around too! LOL!!!



 2007/11/8 13:12





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