| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
I would avoid alcohol and tobacco altogether, if not for this very reason. Why open fatal doors, why give Satan ammo to fire at others to wound the conscience? If not consumed for medicinal purposes, I propose that an occasional indulgence in strong drink or tobacco is purely for self-enjoyment anyhow and should be easily expendable if one has died to self and is living for God.
I wont argue your points, mainly because they are excellent points.
It's reported that Charlse Spurgeon and DL Moody spent some time together. Moody had long admired Spurgeons sermons, and when Moody traveled to London, he went to meet the famous preacher. He was met at the door by Spurgeon himself, [b]smoking a cigar[/b]. Moody was shocked. How can you, a man of God, smoke that cigar? Spurgeon was not offended, but he replied, The same way that you, a man of God, can be that fat.
So, my point is this... while we all are making great point on both sides of this issue, ultimately this issue is one that needs to be decided between the believer and God. And we ought not to judge another's spirituality based on this issue alone... Period.
Krispy
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|  2007/11/7 14:52 | |
| | Re: Drinking Wine ??? | | Krispy
Quote:
Money can be a "mocker" as well, so can sex... neither of which is a sin when utilized in the proper context.
Quote:
You're trying to make scripture say something that it doesnt
The proper context is "Wine" here, nothing else.
I'm not trying to say anything but what scripture says plain and simple. Perhaps it's so simple that your missing it all together. I thinks this scripture is very plain. When one does and enjoys things of this world and try's to use the Word of God to vouch for it (like most people do) instead of conforming to the Word of God, perhaps they are yet still very carnal and in the flesh but certainly not speaking from or for the Holy Spirit but rather carnel and fleshly themselves.
Quote:
Thank you for illustrating my point so well.
I don't believe you have a point except to use the Word of God to cater to your own fleshy desires instead of dieing more to your flesh that His spirit can be expressed in you, that your heart and mind are Christ's and not your own. We are to "conform" to God and His Word not Use His Word to cater to ourselves.
Brother Krispy, i do love you brother but your wrong. I disagree with you and you apparently disagree with me, so lets agree to disagree. I would hate to see anyone get hurt in this thread or for it to be locked. Again Krispy even though i disagree with you whole heartly, i do love you as my brother in the Lord and thats a fact!
The Lord Bless you Krispy :-)
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P.S.
I think it wise that i not continue speaking on this issue in this thread anymore. I sense in my Spirit at this very moment that it will only lead to "Vain Babblings" and "Un-Godlyness". God Bless. |
| | 2007/11/7 15:11 | | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | Quote:
How can you, a man of God, smoke that cigar? Spurgeon was not offended, but he replied, The same way that you, a man of God, can be that fat.
Somehow, I see Spurgeon saying this tongue-in-cheek...and Moody accpeting it as such, with a little humor. But what if Moody had not had the gut?
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Paul Frederick West
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| | 2007/11/7 15:11 | Profile | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | These types of arguements have always intrigued me. Someone will pull out scripture stating why we shouldn't drink, others why we should. I thnk that the point has been made by Krispy perfectly. Since this debate falls into the "debatable" area of thought, I thought it may be good to expand on it.
[u]Scripture:[/u]
[u][b]John 2:1-11 (KNJV)[/b][/u]
[b]Water Turned to Wine[/b]
On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, They have no wine.
Jesus said to her, Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.
His mother said to the servants, Whatever He says to you, do it.
Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. Jesus said to them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And He said to them, Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast. And they took it. When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom. And he said to him, Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior. You have kept the good wine until now!
This beginning of signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory; and His disciples believed in Him.
Quote:
JulianSims wrote:
[u]Scripture:[/u]
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and (Proverbs 20:1).[u]whosoever is deceived thereby is not "wise"[/u]
So when Jesus made water into wine, was He "deceived" and not "wise"? It baffles me to think that if wine was NOT acceptable, why would Jesus make it to give away to people? Would this not mean that Jesus is sinning by causing others to sin by giving them wine to drink?
I do want to point out that it is not ok to be a drunkard, as stated in the bible. I do not condone drinking around others who may faulter.
I have 4 bottles of wine in my house for the last 4 years that haven't touched them. I could care less about drinking. What I do care about is glorifying the Lord.
Christiaan
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Christiaan
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| | 2007/11/7 15:15 | Profile |
| | Re: | | If I have missed your point, then you have really missed mine. But some have grasped the heart of what I am saying... so it's ok if you disagree with me. I can handle it.
I love you too, man... but you cant have my Bud Lite!
(for you outside the US... the last line is from an American commercial. Just trying to add a little humor.)
Krispy |
| | 2007/11/7 15:27 | | hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
| | Re: | | If anyone is intrested , here is a Q & A session with bro Zac Poonen from a youth weekend in Norway this last summer, and in this session around the 8:30 mark he gets a question on this subject, and I think as he so often does, tackles this subject in a very balanced way from scripture and makes it just fit perfectly.
[url=http://www.ordetslys.org/poonen/audio/2007/drammen/Q&A%20-%202.mp3]Q & A session 2[/url]
If anyone wants to listen to the other messages here you go [url=http://www.ordetslys.org/poonen/audio/2007/drammen/index.htm]Zac Poonen in Norway[/url]
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CHRISTIAN
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| | 2007/11/7 15:36 | Profile | BenWilliams
Member
Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas
| | Re: | | Along with Miccah's point about Jesus distributing the wine, I would like to add another point.
Why would Jesus be called a winebibber if He did not drink?
If He drank, was He deceived by the wine?
Also, to add an earlier point I made,
How can Jesus have wine at His own wedding feast, yet condone it's use at any other time?
That would be rather hypocritical.
------------------------------------------------------
I would also like to make this statement, I do not justify myself before my brothers in Christ, I am justified by Christ.
The argument that you should not do anything that cannot be done openly before all men is a false pretense.
You do not make out (forgive the comparrison) your wife in front of a child, because it may cause the wrong ideas. In the same way you would not drink in front of child, (spiritually) because they do not have wisdom to use it properly.
The use of alchohol, or wine is not prohibited in any place in the scripture. In fact, in the last supper, not only Jesus, but all the disciples drank wine, were they all deceived?
Besides the fact that wine is healthy for the body when not used in excess.
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Benjamin Williams
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| | 2007/11/7 16:02 | Profile | hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
| | Re: | | Quote:
BenWilliams wrote:
Along with Miccah's point about Jesus distributing the wine, I would like to add another point.
Why would Jesus be called a winebibber if He did not drink?
If He drank, was He deceived by the wine?
Jesus was also called many other things that were not true, some people called him prince of devils.... or that it was by him he got his power....
just thought your reasoning "lacked" some ;-)
much love
Christian
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CHRISTIAN
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| | 2007/11/7 16:08 | Profile | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: Zac Poonen | | Quote:
he gets a question on this subject, and I think as he so often does, tackles this subject in a very balanced way from scripture and makes it just fit perfectly.
He does. Poonen's reasons for not drinking are the same as mine, only I was also saved from a life of drink and well know the pull of just a little glass of wine or beer. For me to drink would be to not only defile my conscience, but to do an incredibly stupid and tempting thing for personal reasons...but even this is still [i]not[/i] the ultimate reason why I do not drink.
The main reason I do not drink is for the sake of younger, weaker brothers and sisters who look up to me as a man of God. I may be able to handle a glass of wine without sinning in drunkeness, but some younger brother who emulates me might not...and completely go off the rails. I am responsible. Brethren, it's just not worth the risk in my estimation, not for the sake of my own walk with God, and certainly not for the sake of others.
Brother Paul
p.s. The infamous gang here in America, the Mara-Salvatrucha 13, only lets its members go free if they become real, born-again Christians. Otherwise, the only way out of the gang is through death. But that's not it. They then secretly check up on the Christian ex-gang members to make sure they're "walking the walk" and are the real deal. This is done both in prison and on the streets. If the so-called "Christian" is later seen smoking a cigarette or drinking or doing drugs, he or she is executed. I'll let this speak for itself, as it is quite interesting considering the nature of the topic of this thread.
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Paul Frederick West
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| | 2007/11/7 16:20 | Profile | running2win
Member
Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
It's reported that Charlse Spurgeon and DL Moody spent some time together. Moody had long admired Spurgeons sermons, and when Moody traveled to London, he went to meet the famous preacher. He was met at the door by Spurgeon himself, smoking a cigar. Moody was shocked. How can you, a man of God, smoke that cigar? Spurgeon was not offended, but he replied, The same way that you, a man of God, can be that fat.
This is a little off-subject but I would just clarify this by saying that D.L. Moody was not a glutton. He started gaining weight when his heart went bad in his fifties. He died from his heart problems at sixty two. Also it is reported that Spurgeon later gave up his smoking habit.
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Jeff Mollman
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| | 2007/11/7 16:33 | Profile |
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