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Online! | | The Vision by David Wilkerson | | Here are some random reviews of Wilkersons book:
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For anyone remotely interested in premonition and visions of the future, this book is a must read. For those of us who grew up in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's, too many of David's visions came true during the 80's. Some have yet to come to pass, but as the rest did, you can be sure these will.
This isn't a Bible, but it does make the Bible come to life more, seeing that one man's god inspired visions of the NEAR future came true and continue to do so, help to bring back any lost or faltering faith. This book may not be a big read but it makes Nostradamus look pathetic.
Armaggedon is on the way. God's wrath is pouring, David saw it. Are you man or woman enough to read about it?
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I am a big critic of modern day prophets and doomsayers. I found this book lying around my mom's house (world's biggest sucker for so-called prophets)began to read this 1970's book. Mr. Wilkerson apparently was based on a vision from God to him about the future of America. By reading the book you could tell Wilkerson believed his vision would come true no later than the seventies. Here it is 1999 and the US is still here as prosperous as ever, however, some of Wilkerson's predictions are eerily becoming true. Here are the ones that caught my attention.
1. Pornography will become available inside households through means of technology.
2. Children will become filled with anger and begin doing highly publicized acts of violence and all of the country would be trying to figure out why.
3. Natural diasters will greatly increase in the United States.
Those were the predictions that I thought were frightenly accurate. The vision is filled with many other predictions which have not happened (I suppose Wilkerson would say at least not yet.) He talks about our economic collapse, fires across the country, some 1984ish type of government emerging. So although I would not spend more than a few bucks on this 1970's book, I would recommend you check it out to see what you make of this guy's predictions which seem to becoming true
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The idea now that Wilkerson is a "false prophet" is now so ridiculous, so patently and totaly absurd, that I can look back at some of these one star reviews with nothing but awe. We are most definitely experiencing WEIRD weather. Compared with the 70's, we might as well be on a different planet. Sunspots recently bigger than anything recorded, ever at all. Porn? Everywhere. Worse than this, violence amongst teenagers, young people fueled up with stuff that would have gotten them into psychiatric prison, let alone jail, way back when....the 70's.
The arts are in a terrible state and even looking at something as superficial as C.D. sales, any jackass can see that something has got to give. An important point Wilkerson raises is that the name of Christ is held up ridicule. I hold myself up to ridicule, and often enjoy it, but other people are not so robust and have taken that great Name and put it to whatever shame they could. That has most certainly happened.
Ther has been appalling trouble in the church, with the faith movements, run by wolves, ruining and misleading people of God, but still God is faithful and gets to people who look for him, just as his said he would. There is to be NO great end time revival, but a few will repent of their sins, get real small so that God can be big in them.
Someone reviewing this seems to think that we have not been through an economic cataclysm. Maybe that's because real estate has gone mad - both are in the book and they have forgotten the hi tech bust. Well, after all, its been, how long... Two years?
Tell you what though. Most scary of all is that Christ will come back in great anger. That is for certain, unless, of course, you tend to the belief that Christians are going to forceably bring to world to Christ in some military showdown. Which brings us back to the 1984 type scenario.
Wilkersons advice to seek the face of God, a theme in many of his books is good enough for me. Worth a great deal.
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A book like The Vision is a refreshing, eye-opening, and -- in many ways -- alarming look at the modern world.
The author, David Wilkerson, is known for his book The Cross and the Switchblade -- the story of his experiences as a country preacher from Pennsylvania, who became a New York City evangelist to some of the worst street gangs of the time. He founded World Challenge Ministries in Lindale Texas, and now pastors Times Square Church in New York City.
Although written in the early 1970's, The Vision's the call to America and to the world is timeless. The book relates the burden of one preacher over a diseased and blinded world. In the reading of this book, one can sense the tears and agonized prayers that seared its message onto the pages.
By far, one of the most remarkable things about The Vision is the number of specific predictions it contains concerning the years and decades which were to follow. Amazingly, most of these seem already to have been completely fulfilled. To this day Wilkerson does not claim to be a prophet, but merely "one of God's watchmen". But if the mark of true prophecy -- according to the Scriptures -- is 100% predictive accuracy, then The Vision contains convincing evidence that the message of David Wilkerson in the pages of this book was and is, quite possibly, a message from God Himself.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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|  2004/5/25 0:15 | Profile | RobertW
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St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: The Vision by David Wilkerson | | Bro Greg,
I recently read the Vision and found it stunningly telling. I believe it was written originally in 1973? Wow!
The thing about that book that sticks out in my mind the most is that he forsaw a day "Opposite of the time of Job." Instead of Satan going before God and telling Him to remove the blessing- he has gone before the throne and demanded that God bless and bless and bless the people with finances. As if the enemy wanted to SIFT the people of God with blessings to show they would serve Mammon over God.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2004/5/25 8:13 | Profile | KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | I am hoping to read the book 'The Vision' again. Though, since I was not alive in the time he gave it, and my understanding of world history since that time is not very good, I will not be able to read the book and probably pinpoint a lot of historic events. I know more about ancient history than I do modern (since that has been primarily the focus of my studies)... which still isn't very strong. It would be nice to be able to get somebody that is a very good historian to go through the book and check off what they believe has occured since then.
However, here are a few problems I did have with the book that my distant memory can recall (it's been at least 3-4 years since I've read it).
First and foremost, it seems Wilkerson prophesies a pre-tribulation rapture, which I do not believe is doctrinally sound (I'm post-trib).
Secondly, I found it very odd that in Wilkerson's book, he says that he had numerous visions, yet throughout the book, he seldom actually tells us what he saw in his visions. Sometimes he'll tell us what he really saw in his vision, but for the most part, it seems like he is telling us his interpretation of what he saw- instead of what he actually saw. Sometimes I just wished he told us what he saw, instead of giving the interpretation of what he saw. Perhaps God really did give him these visions, but perhaps he attempted to do what he was never comissioned to do, and interpret them?
It's hard to say. Wilkerson always has seemed rather mixed in what he says. Some things he has said have broken me to pieces, yet some things I've heard him say were simply flat out wrong. Please, don't ask me to attempt to recall those things, as I don't keep a journal that says "Today I listened to x sermon of Wilkerson, and what he said was wrong because..." I am though, interested in listening to/reading Wilkerson again though, to see if perhaps maybe I was not in clear in understanding of what he said/wrote the first time around.
Let it be said though that I absolutely loved 'The Cross and the Switchblade' and believe it should be read by as many Christians as possible.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2004/5/25 9:56 | Profile | moreofHim
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Posts: 1632
| | Re: wilkerson | | I truly like David Wilkerson. His ministry does wonders as far as waking people up to their own lukewarmness. I tend to be like him in wanting to use people's emotions to move them out of complacency. This is the natural thing for me to do and I am good at it.
What I've been learning lately though is that there is another way. Jesus did not talk this way- He did not play upon people's emotions- he didn't need to. I think this is something to think about. If this is the way for us to wake people up- why didn't Jesus use this type of preaching?
I have really been questioning lately the use of playing on people's emotions and is this the right thing to do. Is it manipulating? Is it better to present the truth in strength and authority yet let the truth have it's way with someone's heart. They may not receive- but they may. They are responsible for their reaction- not the speaker.
Jesus stated the truth with authority and then let it be. He did not argue or debate issues. He drew people to Him- those who were willing to hear the truth.
Even though I am not so sure about the words I want to use here- I feel that the emotionalism is a "high" point. It keeps people pumped up for a short time until the next time they need to be pumped up. But what we need is to be so changed by the Lord that we don't need a continual "pumping up". We are just living the Christ life everyday because we are changed in our hearts.
I know many people who thrive on hearing and getting all pumped up- i am or was one of them. But i am realizing that there is more and that this is not sufficient because it keeps people having to come back for more to stay "holy". When they should just stay holy because jesus is holy and jesus is dwelling in them more and more everyday.
It can be like an addiction. We should be able to be at rest in living the Christ life. When I imagine Jesus and even Paul- I see them as calm and strong and even tender- but with authority. I don't see them playing upon people's emotions. Even though this does work and is many times used for good purposes- I am wondering if this is the best way.
Just thinking and gathering thoughts that the Lord is suggesting to me. He has been really convicting me in a way about using messages that try to manipulate or play upon people's emotions.
It reminds me of a motivational speaker. They can get you really hyped up and motivate you to do good for a while - then it wears off. Then you need to read or hear more of him because you are just not pumped up anymore. We aren't doing the good things just because we know we ought to.
I don't think Jesus wants our walk with Him to be like that. It should be a continuous wonderful resting in Him- dwelling in Him.
Just thinking out loud.
In Him, chanin
I probably should have put this under another thread. sorry.
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Chanin
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| | 2004/5/25 11:09 | Profile | KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
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Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
I truly like David Wilkerson. His ministry does wonders as far as waking people up to their own lukewarmness. I tend to be like him in wanting to use people's emotions to move them out of complacency. This is the natural thing for me to do and I am good at it.
I agree that Wilkerson sometimes is a bit over-the-top in his preaching style. The sermons I've listened to of his, he often is shouting when I don't think he needs to be. Though I'm not against shouting or being loud during a sermon, but, when it becomes how you deliver most of your sermons most of the time, I can only stop and wonder.
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Is it better to present the truth in strength and authority yet let the truth have it's way with someone's heart. They may not receive- but they may. They are responsible for their reaction- not the speaker.
Indeed, it is as some preachers I talk with at school told me, not to ever try and add some emotional hoopla to the message. They said: let the word stand on itself. If anything, our added emotion... especially if it's not geniune and we are just doing it for some desired effect... can only take away from the message.
Anytime I preach/teach, I try to be as "natural" as possible. That is, I just get up there and be me, and say whatever I believe God wants me to say it and how he wants it said. I've tried "hyping" up a message before, which was a horriable mistake. If I am having to fake or conjure up some style/emotion that isn't there, then I am guilty of being a fake. I'm not against folks getting excited- Lord knows I get excited. I'm not against folks shouting- Lord knows I shout. But, something tells me if you are simply putting on a performance, and could not preach/teach that way over a conversation at dinner, or in the privacy of an office, then you are faking it. I wonder, do some of these preachers shout the entire time they are in a counseling session with somebody? Granted, there is perhaps a different dynamic of giving a message where there are to be no interputions that you don't have during a counseling session. WEll... anyway.. as my sociologist teacher once said: "save the drama for your mamma."
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Jimmy H
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| | 2004/5/25 11:26 | Profile | 5nva
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Joined: 2003/8/15
Posts: 179
| | Re: | | Let us keep in mind that God made us human and with emotions. I have heard David Wilkerson several times say that he know he gets shouting or raising his voice. I have even heard him joke about himself singing with his seemingly harsh sounding voice. I am not sure that he is really trying to play on peoples emotions I just think he has a fire in him that comes out with zeal and intensity. We must try to focus on his message and not his voice.
I also think Pastor Wilkerson has learned much over the years about this very issue and it has shown in his messages over the past couple of years. He is a gentle, loving, caring, merciful man that has a deep concern for the Body of Christ.
Just my thoughts.
Mike
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Mike
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| | 2004/5/25 11:45 | Profile | crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Thanks Chanin,
Interesting. I know what you mean by the whole 'motivational' approach, it can become like an addiction and really does fall short. Went to a business seminar last year with Zig Ziglar and got to meet him, he is genuine in his Christianity. It's a different approach for sure and it certainly got me all fired up, for awhile...It's why I passed it up this year.
You are right in that the only true and lasting change is not in seeking after these 'Holy' high's if you will, but in a heart transformation.
I guess the one thing though about 'emotionalism' is the motive behind it. I would like to think that in the case of Brother Wilkerson it is more a natural byproduct of what comes out of his heart, though it could be misconstrued as an attempt to manipulate...I know that is not what you insinuating about him.
Something else that comes to mind is we don't get the inlflection of voice from the plain reading of scriptures. I wonder what tone of voice Jesus used to rebuke the Pharisses; "You brood of vipers!" "Hypocrites!" or even "If you right hand causes you to sin, cut it off". Then there is the whole issue of the money changers...
It is interesting that you brought this up, it is something I have been musing on much in reading the scriptures, trying to imagine just what it 'sounded' like. I have an audio bible with Max McLean narrating and think he does a fine job of giving some 'emotion' to the words. An example is what I was listening to yesterday in John:
[i]"Joh 8:42-48 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."[/i]
He gives it some 'punch' :-)
Certainly our Lord expressed quite a bit of emotion as did the prophets and the apostles.
But 'playing' on peoples emotions, I know what you mean...just thinking out loud, right alongside of you...
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Mike Balog
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| | 2004/5/25 12:04 | Profile | moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632
| | Re: wilkerson | | yes, I am sure as the years have progressed he has learned quite a bit about controlling himself. I think all "watchman" types go through this. It is all zeal at first- which is not really bad in itself- but then comes some maturity about it.
Actually I was then thinking about how different people's personalities are different and how that plays into it too.
I do think that when God has placed a message on your heart- whatever comes out is whatever comes out- many times in tears and anguish- especially if it is a recent "word".
I would have to say that of all the pastors around- he is probably one of the few who will present the truth- all of the truth.
I would much prefer (or have others) to hear the truth no matter how it came out than not to hear it at all.
I can also tell that his love and obedience to the Lord is first and foremost with Him-over pleasing people. This is important!
His messages have definitley been a stepping stone for me and I know will be for many people.
In Him, chanin
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Chanin
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| | 2004/5/25 12:05 | Profile | crsschk
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Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Just wanted to add that there is some other messages that I have heard (from others, not necessarily here) that are so over the top that it makes you cringe...usually it's pretty obvious, kind of like when you get those emails WITH ALL CAPITAL LETTERS :-P
[size=xx-small]sorry, just for illustration[/size]
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Mike Balog
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| | 2004/5/25 12:16 | Profile | RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Let me first say that if God judges us by our own standards and Dave Wilkerson falls short in our eyes.... where will we all stand in that day?
I thought about the various ways in which a person may preach the word of God. There are many different ways that God may choose to deal with a person to minister. It is a tough thing because everyone seeks (should be) seeking to say what God wants them to say and be sensitive to how He wants them to say it. People often critique a minister from a carnal point of view and may well wist not that they did exactly as God instructed them.
I suggest Finney's "God Cannot Please Sinners" to illuminate on this. You have to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit when ministering. You may say something as soft as can be, and it will THUNDER in a persons heart as God quickens the words. You may shout to the top of your lungs and it have a whispering effect if God is not in it. Paris Reidhead shouted out the most thunderous and loud words under an unction that I can ever recall when he said "THIS IS THE BETRAYAL OF THE AGES!" You see, its not in the volume- its in the UNCTION. And you cannot be taught that- it must be given by the Holy Spirit as you fellowship with God in your prayer closet and walk in holiness with clean hands and a pure heart.
Let a person get alone with God in prayer and the Holy Spirit will teach them to preach. Everyone is unique. Don't let Homeletics I, II, and III ruin the preacher in you. You have no need that any man teach you- for you have an unction from the holy one. Not to say Bible Colleges are not needed- for I have studied much in these places. But you cannot be taught to preach. People's pet peeves come out too much in their lectures- and if you listen to too many of them you will never preach.
God Bless,
-Robert
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2004/5/25 12:36 | Profile |
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