1. If God is totally sovereign in everything as the calvinist says He is, how is He then excused from foreordaining not only the damnation, but also the sin of the damned?

2. If God is not excused from the responsibility of that, then how is He not a wicked God that creates sin for His pleasure?

3. Lastly, are there any other differences between hyper and regular calvinism that I should be aware of?

I have debated the issue many times of reformed five point calvinism, and what I have come to find is that when they realize that they can no longer prevail upon me in an argument, or when we have come to a stand still and I express my deep concerns with what they believe and a number of dangerous attitudes for any Christian to have, they always tell me "that what I am referring to is hyper calvinism".

He is God.

How is God excused from sentencing people to Hell to begin with?

God did not commit sin ben, the creature did. God created man good and upright. Adam had a free-will(the only one who did), and thus forfeited the choice of sinning or not sinning.

We could always say, "Why doesn't God eliminate sin now?"

If God had not allowed sin to enter mankind, there would be no need for a Saviour from sin. Seeing that Christ is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the Earth, it is as if God saw all time in one moment, saw th fall, saw the redemption of men, etc.

There are a multitude, but one of the most universal difference is that hyper-Calvinists do not believe the Gospel should be preached to men. Rather they will be brought Christ apart from hearing it.

Of course this is a horrible idea, and is completely contrary to Scripture.

I don't believe I have done this, and ask that you would be more honest among the brethren here.

I hope that charity will prevail, that is usually why I back out of discussions, when it seems that it is going nowhere profitable, or edifying.

I do not care "to be right", simply to get people to look at their Bibles, and see if what they believe and have been taught is true.

You have made up interpretations of things that make your doctrine seem true, such as princes being demons in 1 Corinthians 2, which undermines any point of my discussion. It is like trying to tell someone that the Bible is the authority on matters, when they could care less what the Bible says. You will not get very far.

I have seen that you also have made your own ideas about Romans 1, and probably believe that Romans 9 speaks of nations, and not individuals while forgetting that even if this were the case, nations are made of individuals, thus an elect nation would be made of elect people.

That is not the question I asked, God is just in sending anyone to hell who has sinned. God is not just in sending people who are righteous to hell.

Adam had free will after he sinned.

1. If God is totally sovereign in everything as the calvinist says He is, how is He then excused from foreordaining not only the damnation, but also the sin of the damned?

The two questions are tied together, and cannot be answered apart from one another.

I have yet to run into a calvinist who can explain to me why I should preach the gospel if what He says is true.

If the same foundation of God saving who He will regardless of any man's action, exists in both parties, yet one preaches because the scripture says to, and the other one doesn't, isn't the one who doesn't preach simply basing his actions off of that belief. Isn't he merely carrying that belief out to it's fullest extent?

There is only one direction left, that is spiritual, now either Paul was saying that the Jews who killed Him were princes in the spiritual realm, or he was talking about something else. That something else is demons, have you not read about the prince of persia? Or of the principalities and powers of the air?

Have you read my article that I wrote on Romans 1?

I believe it does talk about nations in Romans 9, however, the issue addressed in Romans 9 is not one of election, but one of whether the gentiles can be saved.

Now, if God has his chosen, are all the Jews, (which are God's "CHOSEN" people) and that are Abraham's descendants saved?

Who of fallen man is righteous except for those in Christ?

He is God.

How is God excused from sentencing people to Hell to begin with?

Adam had liberty to decide everyday matters, but that is not what we mean by "free-will", and someone so well versed in Calvinism(as you say you are ) would understand the Biblical and Calvinist view of the bondage of the will.

God is totally sovereign, He is excused in ordaining sin because He did not commit sin Himself. Rather He created an angel who brought sin into mankind. He allowed this under the auspice of the coming of Christ to redeem fallen men.

God does not know evil experientially as man does, therefore to call God evil is to reduce God to a man, or equal to man. Then you can demand of you god that he answer you.

I believe they can be, but you simply do not like the answer. You have an agenda, and not a desire to understand what your brothers may believe.

Then you must have come across Calvinists who do not read their Bible, or simply overlook the command of God to preach the Gospel to every creature, or to make disciples of all nations.

No, he is basing his practice off of a faulty idea of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility.

I might ask you, why do you preach the Gospel?

es brother I have, but the word "archon" appears in 36 verses in the NT. It is used for a leader of a synagogue, the prince of demons, a magistrate, the chief of the pharisees, a ruler(rich young ruler).

Now consider this verse in light of this-
Luke 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

The word "rulers" here is the same word.

I think you may be stretching the text to say it was demons. It does not make sense.

If nations brother, then why this towards the end of the chapter?
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

What nations are these? and when did God decide nations were called vessels, when the majority of the uses of the word vessel refer to individual people?

No brother, because not all Israel is Israel. That is the point that Paul is making here. In response to the wonderful promises of Romans 8, Paul is responding to those who would ask, "has God's word failed?" Isn't that what Paul writes in verse 6 of Romans 9?

Those who have faith are descendants of Abraham-
Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Galatians 3 addresses this wonderfully.

Romans 9:17-27 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Can God be wicked?

Can God sin?

Does the Christ in you make you Holy?

Can you still sin the sin of Adam?

Did the Cross pay that price?

The heck with Calvin, it is simply, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."

Just like temptation to sin is an everyday matter, both for a believer and an unbeliever, salvation is an everyday matter for every human being who is not saved. Every day each person faces their conscience in the light of the truth God has placed in them, and their conscience bears witness in them that they need to repent.

I know very well the issue of bondage that you speak of, but it is not found in scripture, if you make the statement that it is true, then show how it is true, through context, and through support of other in context passages. I have already disproven it through contextual argument in my Romans 1 post, of which none of you responded to. Albeit you may have been busy, but in that post, I have brought many difficult questions to the surface for anyone who wishes to maintain your interpretation of that passage.

But what purpose does my preaching achieve?

They are drawn long before I ever preach, so I am not helping to draw them.

And if they ask me, "what must I do to be saved?" it is because they are already saved and they just don't know it yet.

So what purpose does anything I do or say in preaching achieve?

I don't understand what you mean here, can you explain it to me a little further please?

I preach, because a 100,000 souls are falling into hell every day, and they need to know the truth that some of them might be persuaded and believe.

roaringlamb, my goal here is not one that is ingenuine, but it is one that I want to put these doctrines to the test, and if they fall, they fall, and if they stand, so be it. I have friends who believe on all sides of these issues, and often we discuss and debate these things. Not for the sake of being right, or arguing, but we want to know the truth. We are tired of all the lies.

Brother the bondage of a man's will is clearly presented through Scripture. Perhaps the highlight is when Scripture says that that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. We know that men are born "flesh", and they cannot re-birth themselves, or make themselves Spiritual. When Paul points out that no man can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit, I believe he is making a wonderful, and encouraging statement. For if man cannot say, "Jesus is Lord" by himself, does this not prove that God must initiate the new birth?

or example, if my natural will is bent on only making left hand turns, and that is all I can do, a new desire must be put within me to make me desire right hand turns. I cannot do this on my own. If then I begin to desire right hand turns, and begin to make right hand turns, all glory is to the one who changed my will, not to me.

I will let Paul speak here-
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Brother it is not our preaching that saves anyone, for without God's work it is all empty words. Christ spoke many things to many people, but not everyone "heard" what He was saying. Remember when Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ. Christ said that flesh and blood had not revealed this to him, but rather the Father in Heaven.

Our preaching is the means by which God brings life to people, but He is the One who does it.

Brother ben, we must preach to obey God's word. We do not know who God is drawing, but yes you are helping, for how shall they hear without a preacher? We are co-laborers with God.

I admire your zeal brother. Remember though, man alone cannot convince men of the truth. I am sure that as you have shared the Gospel with people in such a way that you were sure they "got it", you have seen them simply walk away as if they never heard a word you said.

However we do not know what will become of what God has spoken to them, as God will accomplish what He will with His words. That is why I say that God MUST awaken, and give life to our hearers.