Poster | Thread | Logic Member
Joined: 2005/7/17 Posts: 1791
| Re: Was God tempted to worship Satan? | | Quote:
Nile wrote: Well, first...James 1:13 For God cannot be tempted with evil
It is clear that God cannot be tempted. So... Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
It is clear that Jesus is not God.
How can some claim that God was tempted to worship Satan?
It might be that you are unlearned, that is one reason why you pervert the Christ just as you do the rest of the Scriptures, to your own ruin(2Peter 3:16).
If not that, then you are clearly a deceiver knowing the truth but stubbornly refusing to receive the love of the truth, that you might be saved. Because you dont received the love of the truth to be saved, for this reason God will send you a strong delusion, that you will believe the lie: and you will be condemned for not believing the truth(2Th 2:10-12)
Do you not know that you speak evil of those things which you refuse to know: but what you naturally do know, as a brute beast, in those things you corrupt yourself(Jude 1:10). Furthermore, as a natural brute beast you would be made to be taken and destroyed, because you speak evil of the things that you refuse to understand; You shall utterly perish in your own corruption(2Peter 2:12);
Consider these Scriptures:
[b]Hebrews 4:15 [/b] [color=990000]For we have not a High Priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses with us in our weaknesses, but one who was tempted in every respect just as we are tempted, and yet did not sin.[/color] If Jesus could not have sinned, He could not sympathize with our weaknesses or be tempted.
[b]John 17:21-22[/b] [color=990000]that all may be one, as You are in Me, Father, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. [b]:22[/b] And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, as We are One:[/color] [b]Col 1:19[/b] [color=990000]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;[/color] [b]Col 2:9[/b] [color=990000]For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;[/color] [b]1Tim 3:16[/b] [color=990000]And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: [size=medium][b]God was manifested in flesh[/b][/size], was justified in Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.[/color]
Why do you purposely hide these Scriptures? |
| 2007/11/3 11:11 | Profile | roaringlamb Member
Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 1519 Santa Cruz California
| Re: | | Brother logic- Good word! 1 Timothy 3:16 And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in flesh, was justified in Spirit, was seen by angels, was proclaimed among nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory
Thank you for this verse. _________________ patrick heaviside
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| 2007/11/3 11:57 | Profile | Scribe75 Member
Joined: 2007/10/26 Posts: 13 Naperville Il
| Re: | | Heterodoxic paradigms never posit anything new...they simply regurgitate and recycle ancient heresies. Dynamic Monarchianism has some serious christological and soteriological implications if Christ is not God of very God.Interestingly enough, Unitarianism seems to subscribe to a modernal understanding of Holy Writ, where human reasoning is the chief arbiter of truth and not biblical revelation. I fail to see such an understandiing of divine revelation being compatible w/ biblical truth.
BTW, why is Nile now employing a "back door" methodology to attack the divinity of Christ? |
| 2007/11/3 12:25 | Profile | Nile Member
Joined: 2007/3/28 Posts: 403 Raleigh, NC
| Re: | | Tears_of_joy,
Quote:
Tears_of_joy wrote:
Quote:
If you use this same sort of reasoning on the verses quoted to show that Jesus is divine, you will find them lacking as well.
I didn't get, what you want to say here.
The arguments being used to show that Jesus was divine is the same sort of argument I was using to show He wasn't God. My argument was flawed, seeing as there are passages saying that God is tempted, so it is not a cut and dry simple argument. The same is true most trinitarian arguments.
My argument went like this:
God cannot be tempted. Jesus was tempted. Therefore Jesus is not God.
If the first point can be shown wrong, then the conclusion does not follow. That's what happened to my argument, I was shown that it is reasonable to hold that God can be tempted in a sense, the same sense in which Jesus was tempted. All that was needed was a counterexample, "Look, here it says God was tempted..."
Lets look at a trinitarian argument:
Only God can forgive sins. Jesus forgave sins. Therefore Jesus is God.
But...Jesus gave the disciples authority to forgive sin. So the premise fails, so the conclusions does not follow.
Here's another:
Only God is called savior. Jesus is called savior. Therefore Jesus is God.
But...judges and kings are called saviors in the OT. So the premise fails, so the conclusion does not follow.
One more:
Only God worshiped. Jesus is worshiped. Jesus is God.
If we go strictly by the word "worship" then the premise fails. God commands men to worship the king in the OT and Jesus tells the saints they will be worshiped in Revelation. Kings are worshiped in the OT. "That's a different kind of worship!" Yes, it is...but the premise still fails. To make this argument work, you would need to say:
Only God is worshiped as God. Jesus is worshiped as God. Therefore Jesus is God.
The only problem is, Jesus is not worshiped as God anyone in the Bible. "But He is called God and worshiped." Let me give one more example argument which will clear this up:
Only God is called Elohim (theos). Jesus is called Elohim (theos). Therefore Jesus is God.
But...Moses is called Elohim, Solomon is called Elohim, false gods are called Elohim, etc. Look at the definition of Elohim and you will see that "Almighty God" is not the only usage of the word. So the premise fails, so the conclusion does not follow.
One last one:
God does not give glory to anyone but Himself. Jesus was given glory from God. Therefore Jesus is God.
This is a good argument...except that Jesus says He will give His glory to us. Following this argument, we would have to conclude that we will be God also! So the premise fails (because God gives glory to us, and we are not God), so the conclusion does not follow.
I have not attempted to show here that Jesus is not God, but to show that these are not good arguments as to why He is God.
I hope that answers your question.
Quote:
Nile, have you ever worshiped Jesus as God in your life? (Before the time you decided to deny him as God)
Yes, I did
Nile _________________ Matthew Miskiewicz
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| 2007/11/3 12:35 | Profile | andres Member
Joined: 2005/6/17 Posts: 285 texas,brownsville
| Re: | | "Only God is worshiped as God. Jesus is worshiped as God. Therefore Jesus is God.
The only problem is, Jesus is not worshiped as God anyone in the Bible."-- Nile
" Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side and be not faithless but believing. v28 and thomas answered and said unto him MY Lord and MY GOD." you would do good to follow the same brother. love andy _________________ andy
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| 2007/11/3 13:41 | Profile | roaringlamb Member
Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 1519 Santa Cruz California
| Re: | | Also when Philip says to Jesus, "show us the Father and it suffices us." To which Christ replies, "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father."
_________________ patrick heaviside
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| 2007/11/3 13:46 | Profile | andres Member
Joined: 2005/6/17 Posts: 285 texas,brownsville
| Re: | | Nile read, 1 corinthians 10:9 then read numbers 21:5-9 please compare love andy _________________ andy
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| 2007/11/3 13:55 | Profile | Logic Member
Joined: 2005/7/17 Posts: 1791
| Re: | | Quote:
Nile wrote: My argument went like this:
God cannot be tempted. Jesus was tempted. Therefore Jesus is not God.
If the first point can be shown wrong, then the conclusion does not follow. That's what happened to my argument, I was shown that it is reasonable to hold that God can be tempted in a sense, the same sense in which Jesus was tempted. All that was needed was a counterexample, "Look, here it says God was tempted..."
You forget that Jesus is 100% Man & 100% God. Romans 8:3b God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, Philip 2:6a [b]Who, being in the form of God[/b]... Philip 2:7b ...was made in the likeness of men: Philip 2:8a And being found in fashion as a man...
Quote:
Only God can forgive sins. Jesus forgave sins. Therefore Jesus is God.
But...Jesus gave the disciples authority to forgive sin. So the premise fails, so the conclusions does not follow.
He forgive in His authority. We do it in His Name. [b]Matthew 16:18-19[/b] [color=990000]And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. [b]19:[/b] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."[/color] [b]Matthew 18:18[/b] [color=990000]Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.[/color] [b]John 20:22-23[/b] [color=990000]When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. [B]23:[/B] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."[/color]
Quote:
Only God is called savior. Jesus is called savior. Therefore Jesus is God.
But...judges and kings are called saviors in the OT. So the premise fails, so the conclusion does not follow.
[b]Joh 5:22[/b] [color=990000]For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:[/color]
[b]Rev 17:14[/b] [color=990000]These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for [b]He is Lord of lords, and King of kings[/b]: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.[/color] [b]Rev 19:11[/b] [color=990000]And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon it was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness [b]He does judge[/b] and make war.[/color]
Quote:
Only God worshiped. Jesus is worshiped. Jesus is God.
If we go strictly by the word "worship" then the premise fails. God commands men to worship the king in the OT and Jesus tells the saints they will be worshiped in Revelation. Kings are worshiped in the OT. "That's a different kind of worship!" Yes, it is...but the premise still fails. To make this argument work, you would need to say:
None were worthy as Jesus. [b]Rev 4:11[/b] [color=990000]You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for you have created all things, and for your pleasure they are and were created.[/color]
[b]Rev 5:12[/b] [color=990000]Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.[/color]
[b]Eph 1:20-23[/b] Which he performed in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, :21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come: :22 And has put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, :23 [color=990000]Which is his body, the fullness of him that fills all in all.[/color] |
| 2007/11/3 14:10 | Profile |
| Re: | | I'm about to [b]count[/b] how many brothers have responded to you Nile, both in this and your other thread, because what I see here so far is, you're only answering Tears_of_Joy's posts.
Oh yeah, now all the more, I see this as an attack.
Nile - try answering ALL the others who posted Scriptures to you. We could also carry the other posts that were posted from the other thread unto this one. Since wildbranch is a female - it should be your place to answer all the ones on your other thread. This isn't funny.
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| 2007/11/3 14:47 | | Logic Member
Joined: 2005/7/17 Posts: 1791
| Re: | | [b]Hebrews 9:14[/b] [color=990000]how much rather shall the blood of Christ, Who, through [i]His[/i] eternal spirit offers Himself flawless to God, be cleansing your conscience from dead works to be offering divine service to the living and true God?[/color] No mere man can do this. Furthermore, Who els can create other than God Himself? [b]Eph 3:9b[/b][color=990000]...God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:[/color] [b]Col 1:15-17[/b] (Jesus) [color=990000]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: [b]:16[/b] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [b]:17[/b] And he is before all things, and by him all things are held together.[/color] |
| 2007/11/3 15:00 | Profile |
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