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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1123
Germany NRW

 Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest


While I do not condone homosexuality and believe that the rise of homosexuality is a sign of judgement in itself (Romans 1) I think that this group's protest does us a lot of harm and brings our holy faith into disrepute.

While standing firm on God's view about homosexuality, we should be able to bring a redemptive message to those grieving over lost ones and not add condemnation to grief.


 2007/11/1 8:33Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529

 Re: Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

Hi narrowpath...

This "Church" is anything but an extension of the love and grace of God. It is absolutely disgusting to watch these men and women protest at the funerals of fallen soldiers in full view of the grieving families! This "Church" goes from funeral to funeral with signs that read: "[i]God hates homosexuals[/i]" (except using a curse word for homosexual) and "[i]Thank God for IMDs[/i]" (IMDs are the explosive devices used by terrorists to kill American soldiers and Iraqi civilians).

Where did they get the idea that "God [u]hates[/u] homosexuals?" God does not hate the [i]homosexual[/i]. He simply hates the sin of [i]homosexuality.[/i] This "Church" is attempting to rob Christ of his loving motive for dying on the cross "while we were yet sinners." They also forget to realize the nature of God:

"Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore, turn yourselves, and live ye." - Ezekiel 18:23 and 32.

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" - Ezekiel 33:11.



 2007/11/1 10:10Profile

 Re: Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the members of that baptist group had homosexuals secretly in the closet.

I am of the opinion (based upon my findings of the New Testament) that we are not to preach to the world that they are in sin, rather to preach Christ and Him crucified. The holy Spirit will do the convicting(John16:8), we are to show forth the love of God in the face of Jesus Christ to this world. Reconciliation is still the message of the hour, not condemnation.

It appeals to our flesh when we preach against sin to the world, but Christ didn't come to condemn the world, neither should we.

When do we preach against sin then? In the church are we to preach to those who have become believers to flee from fornication and all kinds of self indulgence and admonish the believer that we are not to live for our pleasure but that Christ died and we died with Him.

What this baptist Church had done was foolish. How does a picket sign show the love of God? All I see from this group is a gospel of hate. This presentation doesn't bring in people to the kingdom, it produces more hatred that God is some rotten ogre with a club waiting to thrash anyone who sins. But thanks be to God, Christ our LORD was thrashed in our stead.

We don't need picket signs, we need our Father to express Himself thru Jesus Christ in us. We are to be living sacrifices, lively stones, and a walking breathing ark of the covenant that holds the testimony of our LORD.

"Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more" Thats the message of the living Saviour. Instead, we have the message in reverse. This is the message that most are preaching.

"God loves the sinner but He hates the sin". That is such a stupid statement that if God had physical guts, He'd vomit.

The sin and the sinner are interwoven. To the homosexual mindset, God hates him when we say that God loves the sinner but hates the sin. Because he sees homosexuality as himself, therefore God hates him. So when we say the above statement, we are condemning the homosexual or anyone for that matter. Trust me on this matter, I know what I am talking about.

Being born again is easy, disconnection from sin and the world thru sanctification is not.

 2007/11/1 11:04

Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA


Political Christian is an oxymoron

Some Christians in the belief that peace, truth and justice will come as a result of Christians becoming politically active have the misguided hope that they can take over some of the political institutions of America. They hope by raising money and sighing petitions, they can get members of their group elected to public office. They want to build a religious political party that will follow the religious leader of the day and share in his fifteen minutes of fame and glory. They believe if they have control of the political soap box they could build coalitions with other religious organization and convey to the masses their religious understanding of Our Creator's ideas of peace and justice. They want to replace the politicians that act as though they are not subject to or bound by religious rules. By defeating them politically, they want to manufacture the consent to rule America as political activists. As religionist they have perfected the system of ruling by manufactured consent in the religious institutions of today. They want to serve God as mediators between man and God and exclude dissent systematically as they do in their various religions and the different sects and denominational beliefs. There is a strong backlash of fear against the rule of the churches built by hands. As everyone knows the church made with hands of flesh has a man of flesh in charge and our forefathers came to this country to escape the horrors perpetrated on them by governments and churches that evokes the name of God to justify their actions. Think of the consequences, all the people that invoke the name of God would be lumped together[ as " people of faith" as we are now are being defined] and their would be all out warfare between the different beliefs. The physical battles have already become violent and have escalated world wide. Each religious group is sure that their religion is the one taking over the world and there leaders have the Devine truth. Christians will be persecuted for crimes committed by other religious groups.
Stop! Don't be lumped in with and march under an ensign other than the cross, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We the humble upright children that walk after the spirit of peace have a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, and the spirit of this world has nothing in Him. We put all our trust in Christ Jesus our High Priest and He never changes. Can you a sinner stand the unending glare of the holy law of Almighty God to love thy neighbor and cast aside His grace and engage your government, your country men, members of your own family and your neighbors in warfare? If you can you are still divided and still have the spirit of the world, and don’t have the peace that is in Christ Jesus. Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword to divide the world. Peace is not found anywhere in the world but only in the body of Christ. Keep your focus and don’t become part of Babylon and confusion and the babel that separates men and women from God Who is not the author of confusion, that is the spirit of the world that the lost gets their power from. We are one in Christ Jesus, the light set on Mount Zion and the city of saints that accept Him and His peace and love. Peace is a gift from God to the Body of Christ Jesus and not to the world. All that are in Christ Jesus are not part of the world of tribulation.. We don’t walk in darkness but in light, so separate from them, don’t go down to the pit. Gather in our Lord the Light not in man’s wisdom and its darkness that deceived Adam and you. You can not compete with your Master you can only trust Him and believe that all power comes from God. When you seek power and authority then the part of you that is a sinner is in charge. When you are humble you are putting your trust in God and putting God is in charge of in all your life. God loves you and is able to preserve you even in a world with the lost that are under the wrath of God. So walk before God in light praising His Holy Name in peace.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3: 35-36 KJV

Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book? When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back this I know; for God is for me. In God will I praise his word: in the Lord will I praise his word. In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me. Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee.
For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living? Psalms 56: 8-13


 2007/11/5 8:44Profile

Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


Hi Compliments...

"Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more" Thats the message of the living Saviour. Instead, we have the message in reverse. This is the message that most are preaching.

"God loves the sinner but He hates the sin". That is such a stupid statement that if God had physical guts, He'd vomit.

The sin and the sinner are interwoven. To the homosexual mindset, God hates him when we say that God loves the sinner but hates the sin. Because he sees homosexuality as himself, therefore God hates him. So when we say the above statement, we are condemning the homosexual or anyone for that matter. Trust me on this matter, I know what I am talking about.

I'm not certain that I quite follow you hear. God does indeed love the sinner. Each of us are sinners, and while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). Again in Matthew 15:13-14, Jesus said that "[i]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.[/i]." Interestingly, we know that Christ laid down his life BEFORE we belonged to Him. In fact, "[i]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved[/i]" (John 3:16-17). God's love for fallen man is the reason God Himself came from Heaven to Earth and took upon Himself the penalty for sin.

God does not, however, condone sin. I agree that our message should not simply be "[i]God loves the sinner but hates the sin[/i]." It should be this AND "[i]Flee from the wrath to come[/i]..." (Matthew 3:7) and "...[i]Now go and sin no more[/i]" (John 8:11). As long as this sort of "whole counsel" type of message is included, I don't have a problem with the aforementioned cliché.

The problem with these believers (outside of their apparently proud and hate-filled demonstrations) is that they are fulfilling the words of Christ from Luke chapter 18 regarding the Pharisee and the tax collector:
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

These protestors are literally parading their self-righteousness in a cemetary while pointing the finger of prideful condemnation at young men that they cannot possibly know the spiritual condition of. I fear that this sincere but flawed group of protestors might find abasement rather than rewards for their behavior.

These protestors claim that the deaths in Iraq are due to "God's judgment on America because of gays." Since when did God pour out His judgment upon the innocent for the sins of the guilty? Jesus spoke to the measure of ignorance in the disciples when they asked about the young man who was born blind in John 9:1-5:
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

...and in Luke 18:1-9 regarding understanding the judgment of God:
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

As flawed human beings not completely familiar with the righteous judgment of God, we have a limited perspective on God's justice and His mercy. We view homosexuality as one of the great sins of the modern world. It is. But is it any less vile in the eyes of God as a cynical old gossip who stirs up dissention amongst the brethren? Is it any more damnable than the seven things that God "hates" (from Proverbs 6:16-19? In this passage, we learn that...
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Homosexuality is indeed a disgusting and immoral sin that rebels both against God and the laws of nature itself. Yet God still created us with a free will -- to either serve Him or serve ourselves and this world. Perhaps our message should target the root of sin rather than its branches?

What good would come out of this spectacle that this group is playing? Are they bringing a necessary statement to the families of these fallen soldiers, or are they bringing reproach to the Name of Christ? Sadly, this group of protestors feels that they are "doing God a favor" by spewing their hate (by the way, neither this soldier nor anyone in his family were homosexuals). They also feel that they are being "persecuted" for sharing their beliefs and what they feel to be true. Interestingly, there were some believers present at this young man's funeral. But like most divisive believers, they felt the obligation to inform those believers that they are misled and actually on their way to Hell.

Ironically, I am just as disgusted by the actions of this group of protestors as I am with the sin in which those protestors call out.



 2007/11/5 10:42Profile


This is not a Christian church, and these people are not Christians. Visit their website sometime. They claim they are Christians, but then, so does the Ku Klux Klan.

This is a satanic hate group, and we should not even pay them any attention. They are so extreme that most unsaved people understand that they are not just "the church down the street", and I dont know any unsaved people that equate these reprobates with real Christians.


 2007/11/5 13:54

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