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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Universalism?

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BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Universalism?

Hey guys, don't worry, I don't believe in universalism, but I do hope that some of you can help me out with this doctrine.

I realize that there are many scriptures that refute the idea of universalism, such as, "These shall go away into (everlasting) darkness." But I would like some extra help in understanding exactly how to approach the issue in such a manner that whoever I speak with will not ask me a question that I do not have an answer for.

So, if any of ya'll can outline the major problems with that theology, it would be much appreceiated.

Thanks.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/10/30 10:44Profile
TimmyJoe
Member



Joined: 2007/6/19
Posts: 120
Panama City, FL

 Re: Universalism?

Quote:
whoever I speak with will not ask me a question that I do not have an answer for.



Don't let the mysteries of God throw you.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out! Rom. 11:33

There will always be questions you cannot answer. Never ever listen to a man who says he's got it all figured out. Because I've seen more men twist scripture to try to make it fit their views than I have someone just admitting they don't know. His greatness is unsearchable!

-Timmyjoe

 2007/10/30 14:45Profile









 Re:

This is not a mystery.

Brother Ben, if you have a Bible Program - such as www.e-sword.net - just type in Hell into the Search engine of it.


All His Best to you.

 2007/10/30 15:07
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

One misconception of Jesus is that he is all flowers and good things... but no one preached as much about hell in the bible as Jesus did. The imminent judgement of mankind for it's sins is the reason that Jesus was crucified, and the reason that he tells his disciples to go preach the good news is so that all men can have salvation in Jesus.

We use the word salvation so liberally in our speech, to many it has lost it's meaning. What is salvation, saving? Saving from sin? Yes. Saving from eternal damnations, definitely!

Well doesn't Jesus want to save everyone? Yes! But wouldn't Jesus be a nice guy if he just forgave everyone when they died, instead of making them profess and confess faith in Him while alive? Wouldn't a loving God forgive those, even those who don't seek it?

Well that's where the problem is... the scripture is clear that He doesn't forgive those that don't seek his forgiveness, so they will still face His judgement and His wrath. For all men have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.


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Ian Smith

 2007/10/30 17:19Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Universalism?

Ben,

You got a lot of excellent answers to your question. But I would like to make a few comments, for whatever it is worth.

I would guess most people who believe in an eternal hell, would wish we could be wrong about this doctrine. But since the scriptures teach it, we do well to echo these sentiments when sharing the scriptures with others.

Using logic now - actually, would you want heaven to be populated with people who refused to be regenerated here on earth? People who will be just as ugly and nasty as they were here? Sure the devil will be put away for good, but his servants still exist in the form of people. I know of a religious person who can be so ugly, mean. I have told people if she gets to heaven, you sure would not want to live close to her! People look at me very strange - I think they get the point.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/10/31 15:24Profile
jordanamo
Member



Joined: 2006/11/23
Posts: 397


 Re: Universalism?

I have considered this before. I believe that hell is very real. You would have to ignore many Scriptures to believe it is not real. However, I believe we can still hope and pray for all of hell to be released. I agree with Karl Barth, “This much is certain, that we have no theological right to set any sort of limits to the loving-kindness of God which has appeared in Jesus Christ.”

I think there is a balancing act that must be done. We cannot go so far as the liberals do and say God is simply not able to create a hell-- that he's just too nice to do that, but I neither think we should go so far as the Augustinian view of God being too strict to be able to empty hell.

I should clarify that this hope for hell to be emptied is not a dogmatic doctrine at all, and not something the Scriptures hold to explicitly (although some do allude to it). There is a big difference between believing in universal salvation and hoping for it.

Jordan

 2007/11/1 16:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I would guess most people who believe in an eternal hell, would wish we could be wrong about this doctrine. But since the scriptures teach it, we do well to echo these sentiments when sharing the scriptures with others.



God is not offended or embarassed by hell... or to use proper wording, an etneral lake of fire. Neither should we be, when the day of grace is over he will be just to place His enemies there for eternity to suffer torment.

I do not wish to be wrong about the doctrine of hell... because if so that would mean I am wrong about the holiness and mercy of God as well.

In Him - Jim

 2007/11/1 16:15









 Re:

Quote:
I believe we can still hope and pray for all of hell to be released



Yes, while we are still appointed to the day of mercy let us pray, speak and love with eternity in mind!

In Christ - Jim

 2007/11/1 16:17









 Re: Universalism?


Hi Ben,

Does universalism work simply on the basis that Christ died for all, and therefore all must be saved in the end, whether they heard of Him or not, believed or not, or sought Him or not?


If you look up the word 'blotted', you'll find the flow of thought which I referred to in a previous post,(another thread) that the Lamb's book of life starts out with everyone's name in it, but some eventually (perhaps most), are blotted out because of their attitude to the Lamb,(unbelief) or, not obeying their conscience (Rom 2) as they should.


I hope you'll come back and share what you determine is the best way to refute universalism, when you've concluded your study.

 2007/11/6 17:05
BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

Hey dorcas,

I think it consists partially of that, and partially from the concept that hell is not eternal. Which while that may be true, the lake of fire is where it is cast, and that is eternal by all references.

I don't know completely when or if I will have the chance to give this subject attention, I usually focus my time on whatever it is that God brings to my doorstep.

Most recently it is the doctrine of Jehovah's witnesses, so I have had to really study the divinity of Christ, and draw close to God in prayer.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/11/6 17:48Profile





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