| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
jayyou wrote:
Dear brother psalm 1,
quote: I believe it is possible this ties in with galations "there is no law given that could impart life" In other words the law cant save.
Dear brother your statment here goes against what Jesus said to the Lawyer when He says:
Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."
Now according to your statement, you cannot live but Jesus said the opposite.
We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live.
What is your view of this verse?
It would be interesting to know.
Excuse me butting in here :-) This is becoming such a good thread, so stimulating, (I'm learning new things from familiar Scriptures even while writing a post).
[color=000099]"We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live."[/color]
Exactly! The question is could he actually [u]do[/u] what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.
But we can't, we need Jesus.
Maybe the lawyer imagined that he was already loving God by doing his religious duties; but the bit about the neighbour was a tricky one. So he tried to wriggle out of it, thinking in his heart that "neighbour" must mean his fellow lawyers, his friends, or even his fellow Jews - not foreigners or especially not Samaritan mixed-blood heretics!
As it says in Galations the Law was in order to bring us to Christ - by showing us we [i]can't[/i] keep it!
So it does indeed tie in.
Blessings
Jeannette |
|  2007/10/27 18:44 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
psalm1 wrote:
littlegift, I was cmposing my last post and unaware you were basically looking at the same study i was,
Bet you cant do that again.....lol...
David
:-D |
| | 2007/10/27 18:45 | | InTheLight
Member
Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
We know that Jesus and the lawyer were talking about a law, and the laywer replied to Jesus saying what was written on the law, and Jesus replied to him saying that he had answered correctly, and that If he would do them he would live. What is your view of this verse? It would be interesting to know.
The whole of Scripture teaches that the purpose of the law is to pinpoint sin and bring it out of it's hiding place, not to save. As Paul said...
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
(Rom 3:19-20)
So when Jesus declared to the lawyer, "do this and you will live", He is reiterating the demands of the law, that it must be kept completely and perfectly to obtain eternal life. In so doing I believe His intent was to convict the lawyer of the impossibility of that task since such perfection is not possible with man. It was to convict him of his complete and utter need of a Savior.
What such conviction should bring us to is exemplified in Romans 7...
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.
(Rom 7:7-9)
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
(Rom 7:18)
Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
(Rom 7:24-25)
In Christ,
Ron
_________________
Ron Halverson
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| | 2007/10/27 18:49 | Profile | psalm1
Member
Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230
| | Re: | | jayyou, i am not sure about the time period when Jesus walked the earth.
for example;the thief on the cross,never prayed the sinners prayer.
i think that when Jesus talked to the know it alls he knew they were trying to trip him up.
and maybe the answers he gave them were multifaceted.
the lawyer ,because Jesus hadnt gone to the cross,couldnt pray the sinners prayer.
the best we can do is look at the context to get an understanding of what Jesus intent was.
I wonder if anyone has studied this or maybe it can be archived.
I know i plan to take another lok at it myself.
,,,...David
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| | 2007/10/27 19:16 | Profile | psalm1
Member
Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230
| | Re: | | littlegift, thier is another possibility.
That the lawyer only repeated what he had herd Jesus saying. Then he didnt really care what Jesus answered because he immediately said who is my neighbor.
If you keep reading his neighbor was 'unclean' and this was a new revelation to any jew.
In otherwords the lawyer set Jesus up to get to his point. 'Who is my neighbor'
do you agree?
David |
| | 2007/10/27 19:48 | Profile | CJaKfOrEsT
Member
Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia
| | Re: What law is Jesus refering Here? | | Quote:
apt607 wrote:
...He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
...
What Law Is Jesus refering..
...
He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."
Quote:
LittleGift wrote:
Technically, these two commandments are:
Deuteronomy 6:4-5
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And [u]thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might[/u].
The law Jesus was referring to was the Torah, or the Law of Moses. One can note that Jesus' statement "do this and you will live" appears frequently in Mosaic writing, particularly Deuteronomy.
As Jeanette has pointed out, Jesus cited two commandments in response to a query as to which [u]one[/u] was the greatest. He cited what Jews refer to as the "Shamar" as the [u]greatest commandment[/u], but that doesn't answer why he cited a second. Even today, if you were to ask a Jew what the Shamar is, he would most likely be able to recite Deut 6:4-5 from memory, in Hebrew. For the Jew, the Shamar is nothing more than a tribute to Monotheism, but Jesus wanted to clarify what "loving the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might" looks like, by citing a second which is "like unto it". Without this addition the "certain lawyer" could have felt justified in "loving" a self serving god with all his being, and calling that god HaShem.
So we have a Law which has been clarified with the Shamar, and the Shamar described as being like unto "loving your neighbour as yourself". Now onto Jesus' words "do this and you will live", has there ever been anyone who has actually done this? Bare in mind that Law demands consistent obedience, with a penalty attached to disobedience. Also note the the Law decrees that "The soul that sinneth , it shall die." That is the penalty.
The final note to be considered is that death could not hold down the only one who actually consistently obeyed the Law, and it is that resurrection which our justification is based on. Therefore it could be said that he "did this and he lived".
I hope this helps.
_________________
Aaron Ireland
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| | 2007/10/28 4:48 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
psalm1 wrote:
jayyou, i am not sure about the time period when Jesus walked the earth.
for example;the thief on the cross,never prayed the sinners prayer.
i think that when Jesus talked to the know it alls he knew they were trying to trip him up.
and maybe the answers he gave them were multifaceted.
Good point! Most of His answers must have been - the one about "render unto Caesar..." for example.
Quote:
the lawyer ,because Jesus hadnt gone to the cross,couldnt pray the sinners prayer.
the best we can do is look at the context to get an understanding of what Jesus intent was.
I wonder if anyone has studied this or maybe it can be archived.
I know i plan to take another lok at it myself.
,,,...David
Hi David
Our salvation is eternal - the fact that Jesus hadn't yet gone to the cross doesn't matter - He is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". His sacrifice is effective both before and after the historical death on the cross.
I'm not sure what the "sinner's prayer" has to do with it. The thief on the cross's prayer was, "Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom", and it was enough. He was acknowledging Jesus as Messiah and Lord and the fact that Jesus' kingdom somehow would remain even though Jesus was at that moment dying like him! We don't have to "pray the sinners prayer" in order to be saved! I didn't, for example. My prayer was "God, I've got to come to you!" And that was enough too!
Blessings
Jeannette |
| | 2007/10/28 6:06 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
psalm1 wrote:
littlegift, thier is another possibility.
That the lawyer only repeated what he had herd Jesus saying. Then he didnt really care what Jesus answered because he immediately said who is my neighbor.
If you keep reading his neighbor was 'unclean' and this was a new revelation to any jew.
In otherwords the lawyer set Jesus up to get to his point. 'Who is my neighbor'
do you agree?
David
It says that the lawyer wanted to justify himself, so he was probably doing a little more than that. But, as you say, he was also trying to trap Jesus.
You know how sometimes the Lord speaks just a few words and they get down to your core. I think it's likely that this happeed to the lawyer too. He was trying to be clever by parroting Jesus' words back to Him, and Jesus' answer, "That's right, if you do that you will live" challenged him deep down. He hadn't been asking about if he would live, just trying to catch Jesus out!
So probably both our thoughts are correct!
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| | 2007/10/28 6:12 | | DHL
Member
Joined: 2007/10/25
Posts: 7
| | Re: | | Dearest Jeannete,
Please allow me to comment on your message.
Quote: Exactly! The question is could he actually do what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.
But we can't, we need Jesus.
I think that apt607, was asking what law was Jesus refering to when He was talking to the Lawyer.
My answer to this question, like brother jayyou said, I believe it to be the Ten Commandments.
We all talk about the reasons why the lawyer asked Jesus that question, and we concentrate on the fact that His intentions were not sincere,
and as you said it yourself, it was a Glib Answer.
Let's all forget what his intentions for asking this to Jesus. Because his intentions does not good to us, but there is one thing that does.
Jesus answer. What Jesus replied to Him is what should be important to us.
and His answer was simple and direct.
Luke 10:28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."
Now, did the Lawyer really mean what he said or was it a glib answer?
To me it makes no difference, what really matter is the fact that Jesus brought up the law, and even if the lawyer's answer was not sincere, one fact remains, Jesus said that He had answered correctly and He went even further and said.
Do this and you will live.......
quote:
Exactly! The question is could he actually do what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.
But we can't, we need Jesus.
Dear sister, When God Gave the law, exodus 20 and then later moses reread the same law in Deuteronomy 5, these were laws that God Gave to them for them to put them in their hearts and live by them.
Now, you are saying that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and that we cannot love our neighbours as ourselves.
I have a problem with that. If I really believe what you just have said then I am declaring God to be an unfair, unjust and tyrant God.
What Loving God would give his chosen people Laws that they could not obey?
What does that make God to be?
A God that gives laws to His people so that they would not be able to follow then and then God would have pleasure in punishing them?
I totally disagree with you on this.
Do we need Jesus, most definetely yes. Our lives without the love of Jesus and the sacrifice He did for us on the cross, by laying down His life so that we might live, would be a pointless life.
The people of the OT, did not have Jesus the same way that we do, but they did have the ceremonials that pointed to Him, all animal sacrifices pointed to what Jesus would do for us.
Now, you said that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and neither love our neighbour with all our hearts, and then you said, we need Jesus.
Having Jesus, How does that change the fact that we still have to love God and our neighbour?
By Having Jesus, Am I released from this duty?
John said: 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
and look who is going to be saved.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
God bless you...
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| | 2007/10/28 9:52 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
DHL wrote:
Quote:
Exactly! The question is could he actually do what his glib answer said? If it were possible for fallen man to love God with all our heart etc, and our neighbour as ourselves, then we would live.
But we can't, we need Jesus.
Dear sister, When God Gave the law, exodus 20 and then later moses reread the same law in Deuteronomy 5, these were laws that God Gave to them for them to put them in their hearts and live by them.
Now, you are saying that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and that we cannot love our neighbours as ourselves.
I have a problem with that. If I really believe what you just have said then I am declaring God to be an unfair, unjust and tyrant God.
What Loving God would give his chosen people Laws that they could not obey?
What does that make God to be?
A God that gives laws to His people so that they would not be able to follow then and then God would have pleasure in punishing them?
I totally disagree with you on this.
Dear DHL
Welcome to SI!
I don't think you totally disagree with me, I think you totally [i]misunderstand[/i] what has been said on this particular point.
More than one on this thread has mentioned Galatians, and how the Law was in order to bring us to Christ. That is the answer.
Try the whole of Galatians, and Romans 6-8.
For example, in Galatians 2:
[color=990000]19 For [b][i]I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.[/i][/b]
20 [b][i]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me[/i][/b]: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.[/color]
Quote:
Now, you said that we cannot Love God with all our hearts and neither love our neighbour with all our hearts, and then you said, we need Jesus.
Having Jesus, How does that change the fact that we still have to love God and our neighbour?
By Having Jesus, Am I released from this duty?
"Having Jesus" means that [i][u]He[/u][/i] lives in us. That is what releases us from hopeless striving to obey God in our own strength!
I am indeed released from this duty, which the Law shows I cannot fulfil. Not released to continue to fail and continue to sin, but released by "death", by being "crucified with Christ"; and released by life by being "risen with Him". Our obedience to the Law is spiritually like Mary's obedience physically, when she agreed that the Messiah should be conceived in her. She didn't do anything, except say, "Yes, Lord", I'm your slave-girl. Do in me what you have said!"
Quote:
John said: 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Indeed they are not! Because He died and because He lives in us, and His perfect obedience is available! When we understand that, we will cast away the "withered fig leaves" of our own attempts to please God and receive "the Lord our Righteousness" in truth, and begin to walk in that truth in practice. (It took me many years of hopeless striving, even after being born again to really begin to understand, so I do know what I'm talking about)
Quote:
and look who is going to be saved.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
AMEN!
Nothing I have written conflicts with this in the slightest. :-P
in Him
Jeannette
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| | 2007/10/28 11:28 | |
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