(Matthew 6:5-18 NKJV) "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. {6} "But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. {7} "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. {8} "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him."

Does your Church condone and allow public prayer by clergy and laity? This shameful activity is quite clearly condemned by Jesus in this passage from Matthew, so how is it that fundamentalist Churches that hold the Bible as the literal word of God allow this?

Bub

Nice to hear from you Bubbaguy.

Perhaps we should specify what we mean by 'public prayer'. If we mean speaking prayers for ceremonial pomp and circumstance or as a political statement then this type of prayer could be vanity.

However, we can hardly understand Jesus' disdain for showy prayer to mean that we cannot pray in front of one another, or even in large groups. Acts 1---And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

So, prayer can obviously be a group activity. It's not for show, but it can be 'public,'...albiet a rather intimate public. ;-)

MC

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Mike Compton

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Ron Bailey

Perhaps we should consider Jesus' prayer just before He raised Lazarus from the dead. This was indeed prayer and it was also public. I think it's like what someone else said here, it's not the act of prayer but the intent, what's motivating you to do it. The emphasis is that the Pharisees' were doing to be seen.

I think one can say the same for healing and miracles. Is it okay to heal in the public? Yes. But, what if your motive to heal is tainted by a desire to amass self-importance?

I think discretion and sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is the key to balancing this issue. Once He is in full control (filled with the Spirit) then we need not be concerned about these things. For He (the Spirit) will always manifest the will of God and magnify Jesus, thus causing others who may witness a prayer or manifestation to give glory to God. This is the same for works. Christ exhorts us to do good works, which bring glory to His Father. But, there are works which are done for the purpose of self-glorying and others that are for God-glorying.

The essence is the attitude of the heart. That's my understanding.

Ron, It is not a matter of the Inner Light as it has been revealed to me, but rather the Inner Light as it has been revealed to the entire Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). We do not have public prayer because of the instruction that I quoted. But we do ask members and attenders to attend to our personal concerns in their private prayers. Thus, if I have a concern about the health of a relative or friend, for example, I would rise and ask that those in attendance "hold in the Light" my relative or friend in their personal prayers and explain this concern for them. In this manner we encourage the personal prayers of members and attenders while adhering to the instructions of Jesus regarding prayer.

Bub

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Brian

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Christiaan

Compton,

Yes, I see what you mean about prayer in a closed group of believers. Yet, the vast majority of prayer in Church services today fits the description of "heaping up words." It sounds good, but is its own reward. In the long run, it alienates attenders from the actual worship of God.

The same goes for the swearing of oaths. The vast majority of "Christians" will swear an oath in court when asked to do so. But Jesus has told us "let your yes be yes" and not to swear oaths.

I get very confused about Christians who claim that the Bible is God's literal word, dismiss the mountains of evidence for evolution, and yet swear oaths and readily attend Church services filled with public prayer that is a pile of lofty b.s. The words of Jesus are clearly meant to be taken literally, and the story of Creation is also clearly meant to be metaphorical and a parable. The clergy of these Churches make no effort to correct these mistaken ideas and, in fact, encourage them. They build their congregational houses on sand, so to speak, and in the end of times these congregations will be the first to flee the Word of God because their theological foundations will readily crumble beneath them.

Bub

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Christiaan

bubbaguy wrote:

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Benjamin Williams