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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : OT/NT Holy Spirit

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john1140
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 34
A Sister in Christ from Michigan

 OT/NT Holy Spirit

Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. 1 Samuel 16:13
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I have been taught that in the OT there was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but that He came upon people to empower them to do God's work and then left. In the verse above, the HS had left Saul and came upon David, but it does not imply that God's Spirit ever left David. Is this type of the Spirit's "coming upon" similar to or a foreshadowing of the power Stephen displayed (when addressing the Council), Paul, and when we are given boldness to proclaim and defend the gospel?

Thanks for any insight.
Sonya


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Sonya

 2007/10/18 12:44Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re: OT/NT Holy Spirit

Jesus said, The Holy Spirit was with the Apostles and would be in them. With and in. The birthing is the Key, The incorruptable Seed of the Father placed in the believer when they believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and then the answered prayer of Jesus, The Holy Spirit Comforter Teacher would be in us also. The Father also, making His abode with us also.

Col l: 27, what is our glory? Who seals us into Christ? Who teaches us only what Jesus tell Him to teach? The Holy Spirit in us only speaks what Jesus has said. The Holy Spirit sent to David, God ordained that He should be with Him from that day forward. He could have left because He was with David not in Him, but He did not leave by God's decree. The Prayer of Jesus Christ Puts the Holy Spirit in us to teach us Who This Jesus is that is in us, who is now our new life.

In Christ, and In the Spirit with the Father: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/10/18 17:16Profile
john1140
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 34
A Sister in Christ from Michigan

 Re:

Thanks for the response, Christinyou. :o)


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Sonya

 2007/10/18 17:21Profile









 Re: OT/NT Holy Spirit

Hi Sonya,

I suggest reading through Proverbs, Chapter One, to get a sense of Who the Holy Spirit was to the ancients.

"Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying, How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof: behold, [i]I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.[/i]" (PRO 1:20-23)

"Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." (PSA 51:11)

"But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?" (ISA 63:10)

 2007/10/19 0:20
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
He could have left because He was with David not in Him, but He did not leave by God's decree.



Where in Scripture have you found this?

Please do not add to Scripture

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/19 0:49Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

1Pet. 1:11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

Peter inspired by the Holy Spirit says this...that , "the Spirit of Christ who was in them..."

James 4:5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”?

James is refering to the OT Scriptures...

Jeremiah 2:13 “For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Is this water on the cistern or in the cistern?

In Christ
jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/10/19 1:19Profile









 Re: OT/NT Holy Spirit

Quote:
john1140 wrote:
Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. 1 Samuel 16:13
**********************************************************
I have been taught that in the OT there was no indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but that He came upon people to empower them to do God's work and then left. In the verse above, the HS had left Saul and came upon David, but it does not imply that God's Spirit ever left David. Is this type of the Spirit's "coming upon" similar to or a foreshadowing of the power Stephen displayed (when addressing the Council), Paul, and when we are given boldness to proclaim and defend the gospel?

Thanks for any insight.
Sonya

Hi Sonya

I've also heard this teaching, but have come to believe that it isn't true, although I can understand the reasoning behind it.

Maybe it's a result of making an artificially large separation between the Old and New covenants, while in fact the New is more of a "new chapter" of the Old, rather than a totally new "book", as some would claim. The New is based upon the Old, and derived from it - neither is complete without the other.

They [i][u]are[/u][/i] different of course; especially because Jesus is the ultimate Revelation of God (Hebrews 1:1 following) and the Mediator of the New Covenant. He is also the Fulfilment of the OT ritual law, so that there is no more need of the OT priestly ordinances and sacrifices.

However, the God who inspired the New also inspired the Old , and His salvation was for them as well as for us.

Jesus is spoken of as the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world". Jesus was born and lived on earth as a man only during a few years of historical time, but the salvation He gained for us is eternal in nature and has eternal effects - past, present and future.

There is no doubt therefore that the OT believers were "saved" just as we are, and I don't see how anyone can be unless he has the Spirit dwelling within him...

But it is true that the working of the Spirit in individuals was fuller afterwards than it was before Pentecost. Especially in the outpouring of spiritual gifts and in closeness to God, which was apparently rare before, mostly restricted to designated prophets, and a few others such as king David.

As Peter said on that day (Acts 2):
[color=990000]16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: [/color]

Jeremiah spoke about this in a different way - that everyone would be able to have the sort of relationship with God that only a few experienced in his day…
[color=990000]31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. [/color]

But the conclusive scripture to me is in 1Peter 1:10 f. Even though he’s speaking of the greater thing that God has done in the New Covenant, he still says that the Spirit was [i][u]in[/u][/i] the prophets who foretold His coming.

[color=990000]10 …Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time [i][u]the Spirit of Christ which was [b]in[/b] them[/u][/i] did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. [/color]

Thank you for this question, it was interesting to look at a subject that I hadn’t really thought too much about before.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/10/19 14:57









 Re:

While I was composing my reply, Rookie got in with the Peter reference before me!

Great minds think alike, as they say... :-P

 2007/10/19 14:58
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

Jeremiah 2:13 “For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Is this water on the cistern or in the cistern""


The Living water is Christ of the living God, not the Holy Spirit in you which Jesus Christ promised. Your answer: This was Himself He was speaking about, which is Christ, and they denied Him and no He was not in them, and could not be, it was not decreed yet.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

He is the water and washes His Body the Church with the living water with the Word. Which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory, which God has accomplished before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

What is the result of Christ in you? Ephesians 1:19-23 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Jesus Christ is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the sealer of our rebirth in Christ. Just like a soldier has on his I.D. Card the Seal of the United States. God has made it permanent, that is Christ born again in you by Spirit and Water, with His Seal by The Holy Spirit upon our I.D. Card. I am now a Christian, that is A Christ One.

This was the Holy Spirit upon even up to Pentecost.

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Jhn 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

This is the In Christ position:

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:

Until this time the Holy Spirit was upon people.

Then Christ, when He is birthed in us also baptizes us into the Holy Spirit.

Jhn 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

When He was glorified, then we got the Holy Spirit in us.

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Christ in you, then the promise of Holy Spirit with fire, then the sealing by the Holy Spirit.

Christ in you the Hope of Glory.


Christ liveth in me: Phillip





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Phillip

 2007/10/20 14:57Profile
letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: OT/NT Holy Spirit

john

I posted on this before under "OT Indwelling". I did some research to find that many of the giants of the faith believed in OT indwelling. I am of the opinion that OT saints were saved the same way and received the baptism of the Holy Ghost the same as us, they just used different terms. Pentecost was different because it was the first outpouring that was directed to all nations, not just the Jews.

I welcome differing opinions.


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Hal Bachman

 2007/11/9 14:13Profile





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