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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

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 I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

I have been on SI for a while now and it has greatly encouraged me and challenged me. However I am struggling with this issue about my salvation for a couple months now. I have been seeking the Lord about this and nothing yet has happened to where I hear Him say to me "Thou are saved!" I don't know what is going on with me at this point, I have always felt pretty strong about my faith, but recently somethings have caused me to be concerned. I don't know if I am seeking a revelation from God, but in a way I am. I have listened to Paul Washer give testimonies about others who doubted their assurance and wrestled with God over it; God heard their cries and answered them to where they know now!! Just believing isn't enough. I need something more. i am not sure what that is, but I know it isn't an audible voice or a flash of light. But I seek something that only God can do, if He is willing.

This maybe a shock to some, but I am so down and confused now, it is causing me to even wonder if I have ever been saved. I don't know if I am just beaten up spiritually and being a doubter because of circumstances? Until I know with out a doubt I am His, I won't be back to SI. I can't fake it anymore while I am struggling with this issue.

Mike

 2007/10/12 17:16
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

Yes, this post is lengthy, but I do care to give you a whole-counsel answer. I have seen your posts for many weeks now and with affection desire your benefit.

My dear brother, perhaps my own testimony may help you. I also came to a severe struggle after hearing Paul Washer's Youth Evangelism sermon, amongst others. I had gone to bible college, been a missionary, and other things, yet in his sermons I realized something was missing. That "something" was a natural - or supernatural, if you will - hungering and thirsting after righteousness. I wanted to obey the bible to a convenient extent, but I had no hunger to be "perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect".

Soon I came to realize that new birth produces hunger after Christ's life in us, hunger after holiness. Without new birth, I could not be saved.

Yet, I also realized that no amount of perfection could make me acceptable to God.

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." — Gal. 2:21.

What has scripture asked us to do that we may be saved? To believe on Christ as our righteousness. We are not told to believe on a feeling, nor upon Christ plus our obedience, but upon Christ alone, and upon His grace towards all who believe.

Romans 10

"4For Christ is the [b]end of the law[/b] for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"

That is, do not think that to be saved one must attain to heaven on earth or prove your worth by traveling into hell and back again first...

"8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

The question comes then, How do I know if I have believed? How do I know if I have been born of God?

As a style of life do you set your mind on things of this world or upon things above?

Colossians 3:1-3

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

Do you love the world? That is, do you predominantly find your gratification in sinful things, or are your failings now bitter to your soul?

1 John 15-17
"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

What is the will of God? That you believe on Him whom He sent.

John 6:27-29

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

In short, you must surrender yourself to the kindness and goodness of God to do works necessary to save you. Give your salvation to His care, for He cares for you. Meanwhile, you must begin to thank him with obedience and service.

Though for years I had been very religious and devoted, shed many tears over sin and desired a form of godliness; at times cried out loudly to Jesus to change me, and gave unusual attention to the scriptures and prayer - yet for all this I had not understood the Gospel nor the imperative of "you MUST be born again." I thought, in heart if not in confession, that to be "born again" meant that I had prayed the prayer, felt a feeling, made a commitment, and tried my "best" to live according to the word. Surely it had never occurred to me that those who are "born again" of God's Spirit do not, as course of nature, give themselves to worldliness and set their minds on earthly things. (1 John) That seemed impossible to my then-unbelieving heart. But what is impossible for man is possible with God!

God, in His wisdom and providence, has made an example of me. I now understand what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13, that a man can "give his body to be burned, and yet not have love," the true love of Christ living through him.

My dear friend, consider how good and gracious God's love is! Hear His Spirit through this most wonderful scripture, Titus 3:3

"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another."

Ephesians 2:2-3, makes our position before salvation even more stark:

"Remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, WITHOUT HOPE and WITHOUT GOD in the world."

Until the Father draws a person by the influence and regeneration of the Spirit, that man is foreign to every promise of God. The promises come by faith alone, and faith comes only by hearing with spiritual ears. Jesus told the pharisees, "you are not my sheep, therefore you cannot hear." All men are by nature un-hearing, and will never willingly hear God unless He moves upon them in grace to give them hearing ears. "The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them." [Proverbs 20:12] This is why Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice and follow me," and "I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Those who hear the voice of Jesus are the sheep of His flock. He is a truly good shepherd. He gives us our food, He leads us to still waters and causes the cup of our joys in the Spirit to overflow. He gave His precious life for us so that none can snatch us from His hand.

Think of the grace, the exquisite, lovely, free grace of God; that He did not save anyone BECAUSE they sought Him or chose Him. Rather, we who choose Him do so because somewhere in the garden of Garden of Gethsemane He prayed with blood for us to come. Because somewhere in the timelessness of eternity He called and elected us to grace. [Romans 8:29] "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." [Ephesians 1:4-7]

Which of us would have chosen anything besides sin if He did not open our ears?

"God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." [Psalm 53:2-3] And, "the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." [Romans 8:7-8]

We all deserved hell and nothing else forever. The unquenchable fires and desolate, lonely torments of a million - no, endless millions of years, this was our just wage for even the slightest sins against His awesome holiness. Feel something of the burning, something of the endless weeping and gnashing. And the unstoppable hate we would feel towards our Creator, it is almost unbearable to think of! If He had not drawn us we would, as others, run right out into the judgment still trusting in our own righteousness or, even worse, believing that God is unjust enough to pardon sinners not clothed in Christ.

Again, let us look to Titus 3:4-8

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

Does anyone deserve to come to Him? No. Would anyone come to Him on their own? No. Is anyone justified because they "asked Jesus into their heart." No. We are not saved because we asked, obeyed, or did anything... we did those things because we were BEING SAVED BY HIM. This is why we call Him the AUTHOR and FINISHER of salvation. He is not co-author. Our name is not in the credits, for all is done by grace.

Hebrews 13:20-21, "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

God saves His sheep because He is gracious. He has chosen a bride for His son not according to our works, but according to His kindness. We are not saved by commitments, prayers, or continued obedience - we are justified freely by His blood which needs no added works. This does not negate the essential commands to persevere; it makes them possible! So let us work boldly for Him out of thankfulness.

What it is to be "born again", I have discovered, is a supernatural transformation performed by the Spirit of God that turns the whole tide against selfishness and gives us a birthright to grateful holiness. It assures us of our position as heirs and changes our natures to long after Christ.

May God enable you to draw deeply from the Fountain of living waters, from the precious Lord Jesus, who enables us to rejoice always in His constant love.

 2007/10/12 18:00Profile
thomasm
Member



Joined: 2007/8/17
Posts: 116
Lloydminster, Alberta, Canada

 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

I think, we have all been there, God uses these times to cause us to hunger after him. Im praying the prayer of eph 1;15-23, for you my brother, that Jesus, may give you what you need in this season you are going through, so he can bring you into a new season of his grace.

love In CHRIST tom
ps In times like these, focus on Jesus, he is our everthing, in him there is no condemnation, only love.His blood is enough.


_________________
Tom weighill

 2007/10/12 19:18Profile
myfirstLove
Member



Joined: 2005/11/26
Posts: 496


 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

You should read John Bunyun and David Brainerd's testimony. Finney has a similar one too. They knew when God granted them repentance. Mine was similiar to theirs when it came to the feeling and revelation of the gospel part. The peace of God that is not like the world came upon me and I knew God saved me!

I'll be praying for you. No doubt, I believe God is drawing you.


_________________
Lisa

 2007/10/12 19:18Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

reformer, dont leave si, draw on your bretheren.I have always hoped to encourage the bretheren. Like first love said read pilgrams progress.YOU WILL BE SO BLESSED.
Pilgrims progress will solidify your walk.
What you are experiencing is what John the baptist experienced.
I know I have experienced it too.
I can also tell you, you will experience it again.
Next time you will be ready and God will show you how to encourage yourself in the Lord.
You are your own best preacher!
So preach to yourself!
Make a sermon frrom ps 91.
then take a good look at the patriarchs in heb 11
READ PILGRIMS PROGRESS!
It is required reading in some bible colleges
This is only a test...........


......David

 2007/10/12 21:40Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

Reformer, hey bro we're not home yet.....but maybe soon we will see him face to face. Thats EXCITING!!!!!!!
Remember our christian walk is a walk. Not a ride.
Sometimes you just have to move foreward.....When you take a step[this is faith]God meets you.
Do you worship him privately? And sit in his presence?
Sometimes when I worship him it takes a while but he always comes and sometimes so powerfull it feels like waves of his beautifull presence.
God bless you
.......David


 2007/10/12 21:53Profile









 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?


reformer said

Quote:
I have been seeking the Lord about this and nothing yet has happened to where I hear Him say to me "Thou are saved!"

Brother, I have the feeling this is something we don't hear until we leave our mortality behind.

If you do a study, you'll find all three tenses represented in the New Testament (past, present\present continuous and future.

This is the reason Peter talks about enduring to the end, and John barely uses the word 'faith'. It is all about 'believe', meaning 'now' and 'today'.

There certainly is a place of assurance that we know Him, but dwelling in that assurance without taking it for granted, requires continual refreshement, and many little reminders and tests to cause us to turn to Him again and again until it's the first thing we think of for any thing, any time.

One thing I'd recommend apart from Pilgrim's Progress, is to read the New Testament in Young's Literal Translation. That may seem like quite a hill to climb, but I don't think you'd regret it.

Also, as you may know, I cannot overstate how helpful I found Tyndale's New Testament. Even the prologues to each book are a joy to the soul.

But you know, what you're looking for from God isn't necessarily going to come because of something you've done, but because of something He will do.

In the past I had a lot of spiritual paralysis, and I always felt I needed someone else to do the praying to release me at those times, until I discovered I could ask God to break into my situation, rather than being stuck in a mindset which said I was helpless. I know that seems paradoxical. Another thing I learned about praying, was to put into words what I thought I knew about my situation, and then prayed around it by challenging it, as if I was praying for someone else in that situation.

What David said about preaching to oneself is also very true.

One last thought about faith is, that the faith of the Son took Him from heaven, through life and the cross to a place where He was completely dependent on His Father to raise Him up again. He believed. In John 10 He says He'd received that 'commandment' from His Father, to be able to take up His life again. That got me thinking about the word 'command'. God [i]commanded[/i] the blessing, even life for evermore. It is His faith which is going to raise you up when you are identified with His death. It's not something you do, it's something you receive.

David asked 'What shall I render unto the Lord' then answered his own question like this:

I'll take the cup of salvation.


Not for a second do I think you need to be saved in the way one needs when one first turns to the Lord, but we give ourselves a hard time simply because we use the word 'saved', which is more to do with what Jesus has done, than a condition we can claim for ourselves without another thought. God is intent on bringing us into ever closer communion with Himself, and He has a way of paying out His revelation to us of what we need, so that (for a start, we can stand it!) He is using every nuance of who and where we are, to inform us about His mind and will. He uses all our circumstances, past, conditioning, people we know, ways we think, to lead us on, and when we are ready and He is ready, He allows or causes a confluence of events\circumstances, by which we [i]must[/i] grow if we keep trusting Him. Even if you have no idea what this is about, you can trust Him to keep you.

'I will never leave you or forsake you' is not a New Testament promise.

EDIT: I mean, it was first made in the Old Testament. end edit.

Quote:
I need something more. [b]i am not sure what that is, but[/b] I know it isn't an audible voice or a flash of light. But I seek something that only God can do, if He is willing.

You've hit on a truth here. We all know that God knows what you need, but this process is so that [i]you[/i] find out what you need, then you can ask Him and He'll give it to you. Basically, this is what prayer is all about... learning to communicate in a meaningful way with the Almighty.

thomasm said
Quote:
I think, we have all been there, God uses these times to cause us to hunger after him.

Also, He wants us to learn to rest in Him - in the efficacy of all His work. The challenge then, is to receive His death with joy, that we may be joined with His life.

 2007/10/12 22:36









 Re:

Here's a verse that has always helped me:

Romans 8:1 (King James Version)
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If you love God and hate sin than I know you are walking after the spirit so there is no condemnation to you. : )


I remember when I first got saved I would find a verse that really spoke to me and just hang on to that one verse until it got into my spirit. Sometimes we read God's word but we don't let it get into our spirit and than they are just words on paper.Sometimes it may take several days before it gets into your spirit but just pray and ask God to give you the revelation and He will.








 2007/10/12 22:53









 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

reformer said

Quote:
I am struggling with this issue about my salvation for a couple months now. I have been seeking the Lord about this and nothing yet has happened to where I hear Him say to me "Thou are saved!" I don't know what is going on with me at this point, I have always felt pretty strong about my faith, but recently somethings have caused me to be concerned. I don't know if I am seeking a revelation from God, but in a way I am. I have listened to Paul Washer give testimonies about others who doubted their assurance and wrestled with God over it; God heard their cries and answered them to where they know now!! Just believing isn't enough. I need something more. i am not sure what that is, but I know it isn't an audible voice or a flash of light. But I seek something that only God can do, if He is willing.



Brother, better safe than sorry.

It's far, far healthier for you to be worried about your standing with the Lord than to be "at ease in Zion" (AMOS 6:1). It's better to be alarmed than asleep.

As the old Scottish proverb states, "a man warned is half armed".

A word of warning: don't tempt the Lord for the "signs and wonders" types of evidence of salvation.

"And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it..." (LUKE 11:29)

The enemy can make you feel, hear, and see things, too... Don't be seduced by sensually "spiritual" experiences.

"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect." (MARK 13:22)

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" (MATT 7:16)

Are you more patient than before? More generous? Do you listen to people that need a friendly ear? Do you ever call up that aunt that annoys everyone else in your family? Do you do little extras at your job to help your coworkers out?

Are you a "peculiar (person) zealous of good works"? (TIT 2:14)

Seeing a vision of an angel with the wingspan of a 747 or speaking in tongues is no substitute for taking your mom's trash out... or helping an old lady across the street... or asking that homeless guy how his day's been... or slipping him a few dollars...

Brother, [i]your fruit is your evidence of being filled with the Holy Ghost.[/i]

We won't be judged for our gifts, visions, or whatever else... we'll be judged by our fruit.

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." (MATT 25:40)

 2007/10/13 5:25









 Re: I am not sure of my salvation anymore?

Quote:
This maybe a shock to some, but I am so down and confused now, it is causing me to even wonder if I have ever been saved. I don't know if I am just beaten up spiritually and being a doubter because of circumstances? Until I know with out a doubt I am His, I won't be back to SI. I can't fake it anymore while I am struggling with this issue.

Brother Mike, your not a fake. I have wondered these things myself, we ALL do at times. It would be wise if you remained here on SI, the last thing you need to do is drop an avenue that is encouraging you.

I remember some years ago when a brother and I were praying for personal revival. We prayed every night for a few hours and he would share with me what the LORD was saying to him (he is a prophet). After a couple of months of this, I was getting a little jealous of this. I thought, "How come God is not talking to me". I thought something was wrong with me. So here was my solution to the problem, I said, "I am going to stop praying until God speaks to me". Looking back at that, I hide my head in shame, how foolish. My answer should have been, "I am determined to seek God if it kills me and God will have no choice but to speak to me because I am going to get into His face". But instead I did a belly flop right into sin and immorality.

Mike, this is not just an ordinary website, this is a God ordained website for people like you and me to come and to give and receive. At a critical time in your life that concerns your salvation, God knew that you were going to doubt your salvation so he placed you in a place where you will receive encouragement. Don't turn away His provision. The Brothers and Sisters on this forum know exactly where your coming from, they have been there. And they have been hand picked by the LORD to be apart of this online ministry to share what they have gone thru that you and I might share in the benefits of their testimony.

It would be a wise act that you stay with us my Brother, don't do what I did. I went thru hell for my foolish counsel so that you and others won't have to. But be strong and of good courage. YOU ARE SAVED!

 2007/10/13 9:16





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