Hi pastorfrin...
I dont know Chris, why dont you ask him?http://www.yesumulungi.com/index.htm
He was so bold as to claim: 16) Dominionism, Political Christianity Christians Taking Over World Governments Doctrine So yes, I would guess he is that bold; again though, I would recommend you ask Brother Kato.
_________________Christopher
As to "OSAS", and speaking as a "five-pointer", I agree with Jim; Eternal Security is intimately tied to temporal obedience. We are not saved by our works, but all who are saved have turned from lifestyles of sin to lifestyles of pursuing holiness and good works. OSAS is a perversion of perseverance of the Saints, and would be better called "Perseverance of God on behalf of those who prayed a prayer." You are familiar with the four types of soil in the Parable of the Sower? OSAS essentially teaches that the last three types all go to heaven - those choked by the world, those who turn away after trials - and that a perpetual lifestyle of sin does not discredit one's experiential assurance of salvation.[As to the Pre-Trib Rapture] I must disagree with my brother, Ccchhhrrriiisss. For myself, having come from being deeply rooted in Pre-Trib (raised in Calvary Chapel and four years at their college) I have come concretely to the opposite side. I believe that the scriptures do explicitly refute the doctrine, but that few teachers present their case properly. David Pawson's message on the Rapture is a pretty good starting point, outlining the "popular history" of the doctrine.His message is on SermonIndex, here.[url=http://64.34.176.235/sermons/SID11649.mp3]The Rapture[/url]
Chris,Please, go into your prayer closet and ask the Lord to deliver you from your persecution complex. I simple requested you ask the author of the article your questions who is the only one (since he is the author) who can give his motives for what he has written. I have not attacked you or your motives, why do you throw such insinuations at me? You assume way too much, brother.Chris, you have taken this article and are attempting to make it an issue with me and I will not go there. As I requested before, ask Brother Kato and I trust he is well able to answer your questions.Your opinions are well documented and you have made them very clear to all of us here, again ask Brother Kato.Again, happy you enjoyed the article. :-? In His Lovepastorfrin
Please, go into your prayer closet and ask the Lord to deliver you from your persecution complex.
I simple requested you ask the author of the article your questions who is the only one (since he is the author) who can give his motives for what he has written.
I have not attacked you or your motives, why do you throw such insinuations at me? You assume way too much, brother.
Chris, you have taken this article and are attempting to make it an issue with me and I will not go there.
Your opinions are well documented and you have made them very clear to all of us here, again ask Brother Kato.
This is Clearly ANOTHER GOSPEL and NOT BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY as founded on the foundation of the APOSTLES AND PROPHETS and BOOK OF ACTS CHRISTIANITY.
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.dear saints i do believe that once we are Saved, we are always Saved because Christ was slain from the foundations of the world and at that point is our Salvation. Now to be sure, being Saved requires work on our part also as we are co-labourers with God and we are to work out that Salvation with fear and trembling. For us to work with God to that end requires an Obedience which only He Himself can Supply because it is not to be found in us. So on the issue of Salvation, God provided the Blood for the Sacrifice and the Grace for us to be Obedient, indeed God has furnished everything we need to walk in Salvation so if we are Saved, we are always Saved in that sense. that Jesus was slain before creation says that the enemy can't go back and undo what had been decreed from before by God at that point in Eternity thereby robbing us of Salvation because Salvation depends wholly on God and He is more than capable of seeing us through. now some people who run around pretending to be of Christ but aren't, are obviously unsaved. They front like they are but aren't. That being said, once one is Saved, one can't remain the same without progressing toward Perfection. the rate at which this happens depends on what our Lord has decreed but there is no staying at the same place as though nothing happened. Even when i would rebel against God after i was Saved, His Holy Spirit always let me know and i was always convicted no matter what and eventually i'd come Home running like the prodigal son after being out in the world a bit and catching all kinds of grief away from Him. That i would say is a mark of someone Saved, that no matter what, he/she repents and presses on into God. As for the rapture issue, i don't think scripture supports it being pre-trib, especially given that the Revelation is written to the Church and Paul talks about the catching away as being some time after the revelation of the man of sin which is during the trib. bro Chris, the bottom line is that either the pre-trib rapture is a false doctrine or it isn't, there isn't an inbetween discussion/debate about it or not. i think it is a false doctrine calculated to lull the Church into a false sense of security that we will escape fire which is how we are proven. it is easier to be a Christian (or do anything really) under ideal conditions, the true test has always been adversity. i agree with Katz when he said, "crisis reveals and absolute crisis reveals absolutely" my wife said "we're finding out and about to find out if we are Christians in theory or in fact," i make no bones about my stance on the rapture, if i am wrong, our Lord will surely set me straight and we will find out soon enough. However if indeed our Lord has spoken, and has been speaking saying that this event is post trib...then we're in for a time of trial unlike anything ever witnessed. to me that makes sense since much more is expected of us, we have the whole canon and 2 millenia plus of testimony and experience concerning God to much more is expected of us i believe...but like i said, if i am wrong, then it will be me who is wrong, but if i have spoken rightly, it will be because it is God who is right, so let Him be shown to be Truthful and every man a liar!Grace and PEace are ours in JEsus.AMEN.
_________________Farai Bamu
It seems we are all leaves blown about by the storms of our times...let's not kid ourselves and think that a few of us, even if we believe we are prophets, are outside of these winds looking in on everyone else. Even prophets can be carried aloft by the fearful passions of this dark hour. We may be loathe to admit it, but we Christians are still captialists, or marxists, or pacifists, or patriots, Americans or Africans. God help us, we are still humans and not angels...we are still human players, seperated by national and cultural perspectives upon the stage of history in a frightful hour. Let's not further isolate ourselves into divided camps because of our eschatology. Am I the only one who is weary of the sting of constant denoucements of one another? Do prophets use terms like 'neo-con' and 'right-wing' and then wonder why the 'American Church" is offended? Sometimes it's not the cross that offends others, but our own worldy stains that we refuse to acknowledge.My question is if we reach the hour of our nuclear purification, can we start being brothers again? MC
_________________Mike Compton
i think it [the pre-trib rapture] is a false doctrine calculated to lull the Church into a false sense of security that we will escape fire which is how we are proven.
My question is if we reach the hour of our nuclear purification, can we start being brothers again?
Chris,Thank you for your thoughtful commentary, your opinions are so very much appreciated. :-) In His Lovepastorfrin
MC wrote:
theopenlife wrote:
Right now it does not cost so much to disagree; then we will pay prettily and will want to know for certain what makes someone a "brother".