Kansas City, Missouri
There was a fella who blew through town a couple years ago that would often use the headline to this thread rebuking the church. Always got under my skin.
The Church would have far fewer problems if our homes had far fewer problems!! And the same is true our homes would have far fewer problems if the Church would return to, and preach the Cross.
The church often it seems to me is referenced similarly as is government, you would think it was some three eyed, two headed freak show. When both the church and the government are made up of you and I. Want to help nurture either? Stay full of the Holy Ghost and become involved as Krispy has aptly stated.
| 2007/10/12 14:22||Profile|
| Re: A Rebuke to the Church|
But how many today are willing to do this for the gospel? How many are willing to do this to reach the lost, to reach our community with God's message? How many are willing to stand on a street corner with a "Turn to Jesus" sign?
Wow, what a rebuke, a righteous, and loving Rebuke for those of us who are spiritually cold.
May we all be on burning fire for our Lord and Savior. May we do that and much more for his name.
Thank you Brother for puting this up.
| 2007/10/12 14:24||Profile|
I dont know if I agree with this... mainly because I dont know if this is true or not. And neither do you. Altho your statement is not a complete generalization, it is an over generalization because there are no facts to back up such a claim as this.
There are plenty of facts... These are statistics from respected teachers.
75% of Christian youth in America polled said that the ressurrection of Jesus Christ is not important to them - Paul Washer
88% of children raised in evangelical homes will leave the church at the age of 18 never to return again - Ray Comfort
If you disagree with what people like Ray Comfort, Paul Washer, David Wilkerson, and many others are crying out... that the so called church is not, then thats to your own detrimate.
This is true of anyone who is not saved. However, in this context, this comes across as more judgementalism and condemnation... which, sadly, seems to be about all you can add to this forum..
Oh a personal attack... your superiority in love and grace is now evident :(
Not sure what this has to do with anything. Sounds to me like you are jealous that God has been blessing some families to take nice vacations.
we lack nothing in the means of income to take fancy vacations against the clear call of Christ to forsake our lives in this present age if we choose to. I think the Bible may say something about people being lovers of pleasure more then lovers of God in the last days though... and a vacation on its own is not worthy to mention, I was describing the many so called christians who are at ease in Zion...
Again, while this is true for a lot of teens... it certainly isnt true of all teens who call themselves Christians.
Jeremiah 7:30 " 'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it.
Jeremiah over generalized a lot too... not all people in Judah had set up idols
Again... I could agree with this statement if it were not for your over generalization, coupled with your judgemental and condemning attitude.
Krispy - I have never attacked you, or any person besides a false teacher or two on this forum. I speak against the establishment and then you attack and judge me... calling me judgmental. This is hypocrisy to the highest degree. A quick review of the past months on this forum will continually show you personally attacking me several times including name calling and false accusations. May the grace of God sanctify your heart.
Jim, I love you man, but your words come across as haughty and condemning. In your attempt to impress us all, you in fact offend quite a number. And I expect that you will wear that offence as a badge of courage
Krispy - this is slander. You have continually made vicious personal attacks against me for speaking truth. Please stop addressing me personally on this forum, even in the guise of 'love'. You use shameful tacticts that can clearly be traced back over the last few months.
perhaps you could spend more time examing why what I say (about our precious babylon) offends you rather then slandering, judging and falsely accusing me on a personal level.
In Christ - Jim
| 2007/10/12 14:34|
The vast majority of the kids in our youthgroups are not saved.
I dont know if I agree with this... mainly because I dont know if this is true or not. And neither do you. Altho your statement is not a complete generalization, it [b]is[/b] an over generalization because there are no facts to back up such a claim as this.
No we don't know if kids are saved or not, but what we can tell is if thier fruit is good.
[b]A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit[/b]
43 For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."
How can someone NOT agree with Laz and Corey's statements? Look at the devil and his workers. They work day and night to win converts. What are we doing? Most of us pray, which is the most important thing we can do, but when it comes to really taking action, we hide behind the premise of "Preach the gospel daily, use words when nessessary".
There is a time and place for this, but as believers, we should be screaming to those that are damned. I am just as guilty by not doing all I can to help save souls.
There is a quote by Ray Comfort that I love and I think that it explains most everything on this subject. Here it is.
[i]"If we truly believed in Hell, we would plead with sinners." - Ray Comfort[/i]
| 2007/10/12 15:13||Profile|
No we don't know if kids are saved or not, but what we can tell is if thier fruit is good...
...How can someone NOT agree with Laz and Corey's statements? Look at the devil and his workers. They work day and night to win converts. What are we doing? Most of us pray, which is the most important thing we can do, but when it comes to really taking action, we hide behind the premise of "Preach the gospel daily, use words when nessessary"...
...we should be screaming to those that are damned.
You start with "fruit" and end with "screaming". But what sayeth the Gospel?
"But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and [i]bring forth fruit with patience.[/i]" (LUKE 8:15)
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance..." (GAL 5:22-23)
"But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And [i]the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace[/i] of them that make peace." (JAM 3:17-18)
Are we called by Jesus to convert the masses by terror (ie, screaming at them)? Or are we an elect minority, called by the Lord to be "a peculiar people, zealous of good works" (TIT 2:14)?
| 2007/10/13 4:05|
I think we should just all examine ourselves, take a look at our own lives, and ask ourselves, "Do I really love God? Do I really love people? And do I really believe that there is a hell?"
If we truly love God, we will obey God. And if we truly love people, we will tirelessly reach out to people. And if we truly love people, and truly believe in hell, would we be living the way that we are currently living??
| 2007/10/13 6:05|
Corey-thank you for your posts
The Galatians verse had been floating around in my head since I started reading this post.
A couple of years ago, I prayed and asked the Lord to give me a burden for the lost that seemed to be lacking in my life. That prayer was definitely answered and that burden is growing and persistent. I share Jesus with coworkers, old and new friends, people I run into. And my zeal has grown. Through this experience, I've prayed and sought out how I should be a minister of the Gospel. I've watched videos of street preachers and was initially warmed by their zeal, but, I've seen a couple videos of you Jesse, screaming at unbelievers and calling them "Pharisees" engaging in name calling such as calling homosexuals "sissys" and the like. I've be thinking, is this something I should be doing?(street preaching)
Well, I might just go and preach on the street, but I feel like God is reaching beyond my zealous heart and prodding me with His Spirit.
I Peter 3:15 (NIV)
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect
Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
I believe that we MUST speak the truth in love if we truly love our Christ Jesus. Ultimately, it is not the loudness of our words, it is not the cleverness of our argument, it is Holy Spirit work that touches lives through words spoken from a obedient and humble vessel.
| 2007/10/13 7:49||Profile|
North Central Indiana
Praise Jesus!!! Lion of Judah!!!
i see a that many of you strongly defend Laodecia.
If most of us truly love what God loves and hate (yes i said hate) what God hates. We would anguish and groan over what we see in America.
Righteousness is more than attendance in some building, a few shallow prayers, and a smug attitude about our lack of participation in things such as homosexuality and drug use.
With every fiber of our being we should stand and oppose the climate that is stealing a whole generation.
Not on some little known forum in front of a bunch of strangers who can pretend to be any thing they want. Go out to the highways and byways. We are all called!!
Instead of taking exception to what Bro Jesse & Bro Jim had to say. WE should take action. Since we are concerned about fruit why are we not concerned about this kind?
Mt 3:8 "Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance
And if we listen to Jesus, at the end of HIS Sermon on the Mount He says this:
Mt 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
Mt 7:25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
Mt 7:26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
Mt 7:27 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Hear what is said and taught and DO IT!!!
With all my heart i believe that the axe is already laid at the root of the tree. Judgment is upon Gods people. It is time for all of us to be sure of our foundation.
As for me and my house, we will keep our lamps full of oil and be about our Fathers business.
| 2007/10/13 8:33||Profile|
Jesse, please permit me to do some surgery on one of your paragraphs a sentence-ectomy.
1. But how many today are willing to do this for the gospel?
2. How many are willing to do this to reach the lost, to reach our community with God's message?
3. How many are willing to stand on a street corner with a "Turn to Jesus" sign?
If you extract your middle sentence, and throw out the surrounding sentences, I could say a hearty Amen. Yes, I have given my life to the Lord to be used to spread his good news in my community.
But the sentences surrounding it stipulate a method that God has not called me to. Doing so would be contrary to Gods calling in my life. He has called me to live the Christ-like life in the contexts of the relationships he has put me in. To sabotage that by adopting commercial means would be to destroy the trust that God has given me - the relationships in my community.
Still, I see your point. Someone once said, Actors do a better job convincing people than those who supposedly have the real thing.
By the way, if we could see into people's minds and understand how they likely view God and Christianity - developed as A RESULT of so much bad witness, we's see that that their conceptions are NOT the same as the God of the Bible. What they are rejecting is the bad image they have in their minds. I don't blame them!
See why Jesus-signs and fleshly attempts to sell the gospel can be counterproductive? We may inadvertently be promoting a false product.
So, how do people get to know what God is REALLY like?
| 2007/10/13 10:48||Profile|
| Re: A rebuke to the zealots too|
Just a comment regarding the thread title. It is a rebuke directed towards those who refuse to witness. However, in all fairness, should we not also include those who are zealously trying to witness in their own strength and in doing so have turned off a lot of people?
Jesus said, You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell. Matt. 23:15
Gods name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you. Rom. 2:24
Lets admit, the word evangelical is a disdained word in the mind of countless thanks to those over the years who have been pushy, aggressive, and unloving. And, sadly, now many are throwing the baby out with the bathwater as a result. They can't separate what is godly from what is a false form of godliness.
Might I suggest that the better way to win the lost is by humbly confessing our evangelical pride to our society and asking for their forgiveness. Maybe we need to wash feet for a while - to show our penetant hearts.
| 2007/10/13 11:20||Profile|