ccchhhrrriiisss...

My thoughts concerning the questions you have asked are well documented on this forum. Since I am on hiatus because I grew sick and frustrated of my words being twisted and misinterpreted, I will only refer to other threads where I voiced my thoughts. I dont wish to become engaged in another worthless debate with someone.

But lets say that I do agree 100% with you.

One things that pacifists do is they tend to paint anyone who believes that war has been justified from time to time thru-out history as being blood thirsty hate mongers who just want to kill.

Not so.

General Lee, one of the most brilliant military minds in history said "It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow fond of it."

General Sherman, the man who brought terrorism to the south during the same war, said "War is hell".

My father fought in Vietnam, and my grandfathers and their brothers all fought in WWII. They rarely spoke of what happened to them over there.

I've been in 3 combat zones. While I performed my duty, my #1 desire during those times was to get the heck out of there and go home.

I think service people who have been in combat are the greatest pacifists, while still understanding that at times... war is necessary.

It's interesting that the first episode of The War is titled "The Necessary War". He's right.

Everyone is free to comment on my words here, but please spare yourself the energy of trying to sway my opinions, or engage me in an argument. Neither will work.

Now we will resume our regularly scheduled hiatus...

Krispy

Brother Rahman,

James has it pretty well covered.


James 4:1-17
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. [4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. [5] Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? [6] But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.


Maybe this is why Jesus said:

Matthew 5:3-12
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [4] Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. [5] Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. [6] Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [7] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. [8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. [9] Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [10] Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [11] Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. [12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.



If Jesus meant for us to be involved in war to fulfill the great commission then He would have said so.

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.




Jesus said: “all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” He did not the say, go ye therefore and make war to fulfill my will.

Jesus said to teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.
We all know what He commanded them. To deny themselves, to take up their cross daily and follow Him.

The only place I see any saints following Him to war is when He comes back and then it is He, Jesus himself, who does the destroying.

2 Thes. 2:8-12
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rev. 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev. 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Notice, It Is HE, Our Lord who:

"and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Not man through war.


So tell me again what reading or watching war documentaries, about man at war with one another, will do for us.

Maybe prepare us for WWIII?


Seems our time would be better spent doing:

Ephes. 6:10-18
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. [11] Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. [14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: [18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

2 Cor. 10:3-5
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

One other little thing that Jesus taught His disciples, (you know, the ones that were to teach us to observe all things, whatsoever He commanded them) this has always kind of settled it for me, that yes God is in charge, so we are as His children to be:

Matthew 10:16-22
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. [17] But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; [18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. [19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. [21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. [22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

You see for things to happen this way and for Him to ask us to react as He has; leaves no doubt that obedience to His will is how we endure to the end and are saved. Notice, these doves do not carry swords.

In His Love
pastorfrin

Hi HE_Reigns...

_________________
Christopher

Ya know bro Krisp I just realized what mankind's tendency to war, and your haitus have in common ... Tho both WW's we're supposedly the War to end all wars, like you on your hiatus, they just keep on coming back! :-P ...

Just a little levity within such a sobering subject :-D ...

WWII does seem to me like it was a necessary war, for Hitler as i've stated seems to me to have been more than met the natural eye, and then becoming in unison with an emperor as god worshipping Japan ... Many of the guys on Ken Burn's documentary said the Japanese soldier were the worst of the foes to fight ...

From what i remember of Vietnam it never seemed like a war that would possibly spill over into a WW, but this one in Iraq i'm not so sure about, especially if the U.S. begins incursion into Iran ...

Just writing here and don't expect a reply ... your being on hiatus and all ... :-P

Pastorfrin you wrote;
"So tell me again what reading or watching war documentaries, about man at war with one another, will do for us. Maybe prepare us for WWIII?"


--- Pastor at the beginning of this thread i stated this ...

[b]Quote;[/b]
"i've started this new thread because Pastorfrin's thread has to do with the scripturally based ideal of Christians not starting and/or participating in war, whereas this thread is more about the reality that even professed Christians, and professed Christian nations have both started, and participated in wars ... This thread is not about declaring whether that's right or wrong in God's eyes, or if a Christian is saved or not if they start/participate in war, but moreso about the sobering historical facts of war, which seems to have become an inextricable part of mankind's life after the fall ..."

i don't know what it'll do for "us", and from your postings it'll do "nothing at all for you", but for me i still wonder a whole lot about wars, their origins, how and even do they fit into God's will and plan, and so i quest, and actually find it quite interesting that at this time the new WWII documentary is on TV ...

So bless God that you have all your answers and ducks all lined up in a row about this subject already :-D, but i don't :-( and is why i didn't post my wonderings on the threads you started ... I'm interested in this subject and hearing other saints take on it, so as i'm pretty clear of your take (tho i'll surely read whatever you post ) i'll more than likely not be spending to much time answering you back unless our Lord hits me with a real revelation thru you ... And amen, maybe it will show me something in preparation for WWIII, because i find this war in Iraq a potential powder keg akin to the beginnings of WWII, especially if it goes over into Iran, and wonder what prophetic fulfilments it may bring ... Maybe none, but i wonder ---

Hi pastor_frin...

_________________
Christopher

Rahman wrote:

_________________
Sandra Miller

I have NOTHING left to lose - Bless God, so if anyone cares to read these, they're here, to be read in the order that they're posted. They merely represent my held opinion.

I don't have Brother Frin's gift of posting - nor do I care to go back and forth with other's sources, but all I feel is - we are all entitled to our own 'opinions' derived from whatever sources we choose. It's still a free country - by God's Grace only.

These are my opinions posted here and here I stand on this issue - but won't be back to argue those who disagree - because I don't like debates.

I just believe we post our beliefs and leave it there - and not try to twist somebody's head off to our way of thinking. Just post our opinion and leave it there - and then you won't have knock down dragged out ugly locked threads.

Fighting over opinions is playing GOD.


Again, to be read in the order posted for clarity and my opinion.

http://threeworldwars.com/albert-pike.htm

http://threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

http://threeworldwars.com/overview-print.htm


Peace to all.