| Poster | Thread | dohzman
Member
Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132
| | Re: | | Rom 14 has to do with judging a brother based on life and thier actions. The dietary aspect was just one vital part of understanding this scripture. You need to think outside of literal interpetation. The Word of God after all was called bread?
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And I am no more obliged to love a man I discern to be a false teacher than I am to love Balaam, Simon the Sorceror, Peter Popoff, The Rolling Stones
Are you sure about that? If that is indeed what you believe than your prayers for the lost are ineffective and useless. Love is the very moving force behind our prayers, faith worketh by love.
When I was young in the Lord I had great zeal for God, His Word and His church, as I saw and understood them at that part of my life.In My immaturity I said things to whole congregations in judgement because this pastor or that church leader came against me, I used nothing but scripture than and watch entire fellowships fold. I really wish I would have been more patient, gentle, kind, prayerful. You only used scripture that's true, but in the posting of your defense you revealed your heart, void of love and any fruits of love. I think you are just like I was many years ago. I heard a good man say once to never do or say something you can't live with for the rest of your life, that's a good word!
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No man can stand before God's judgment. Except One.
Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Who was it that said this?......Let me think.....O'Yea, it was God who said this, He was talking about the here and now. I sure hope you're making eternal judgements on people based on scripture, if that's the case than you really have no confidence in your ability to reach heaven by prayer and see things change.
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The prophets of old spoke nothing of themselves - they were compelled by the Spirit of God to speak the Word of God.
They often spoke of themselves, how they felt, what was going on in thier minds and hearts. This book we call the bible is full of humnanity, and these prophets of old were, I know it is strange to think...they were human...real people, they had major flaws, sinful charastics, they had sin they had to deal with, are people so blind that they can't see it in thier writtings? I could go from cover to cover and show you what this prophet or that prohet was dealing with, just take time to read thier writtings, not generically, but as one who is afflicted with thier afflictions, troubled by thier troubles....I think to myself the reader has no ears(heart) to hear so what's the use in writting anymore on this subject.
Corey you have all the answers, but you just don't get it. You think you know the prophets, you know thier words, but don't know thier heart. I have such deep sadness in this post and in reading your response, it's unbelieveble. I'll reply no more to this matter, just make sure the God your hearing from isn't just self interpeting God the way you want Him to be and self righteously throwing fiery arrows (His Word) at all that pass by.
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D.Miller
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|  2007/10/17 8:43 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Will God give us some REAL Prophets? Not men who are like bullies in the High School who looked for the weak and passive to spill their violence upon- but some men that will go TOE TO TOE with some REAL issues in this land? When I hear the fornicators who leave young girls pregnant all across our cities being rebuked; when I hear the sluggards being rebuked, and when their thieves and liars are being rebuked- I'll know then I may well be beholding a REAL prophet.
The Lord invited a thief down from a tree to dine with Him.
The Lord invited another thief (nailed to another type of tree) into His heavenly kingdom.
The Lord spoke gently and reassuringly to the woman with five husbands...
...and freed the adulterous woman who otherwise would have been stoned.
He is patient and merciful with the fatherless, the homeless, the hopeless, the powerless - in few words, with those who know no better.
The poor beggar didn't know Jesus, the Cross, the Bible, or even baptism. He knew suffering. And the Lord saved Him of His own mercy. (LUKE 16:20)
The Lord saved His Almighty Wrath for the unsaved religionists of His day who rightly called Him "a friend of sinners". (MATT 11:19 LUKE 7:34)
I imagine the deepest pits of hell are reserved for those who know the Word, are called to be unprofitable servants, and instead become twofold children of hell. (MATT 23:15)
edit: The prophets you seek will no doubt eat with, speak with, and serve the people you deride (as Christ did). They may even tie together a few cat-o-nine-tails and whip the moneychanging, gluttonous, vainglorious pastors out of many a "church", too.
Perhaps the heathen will believe when they see the church take her own medicine. |
| | 2007/10/17 12:22 | | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
[u]The prophets you seek will no doubt eat with, speak with, and serve the people you deride (as Christ did).[/u] They may even tie together a few cat-o-nine-tails and whip the moneychanging, gluttonous, vainglorious pastors out of many a "church", too.
If this is true I know not God or the bible.
_________________
Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2007/10/17 14:26 | Profile | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Pride | | Quote:
And I am no more obliged to love a man I discern to be a false teacher than I am to love Balaam, Simon the Sorceror, Peter Popoff, The Rolling Stones, or the fallen angels and the devil they all serve.
[i]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;[/i] Mat 5:44
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Not me. The Spirit discerns something's amiss. He tells me to search the scriptures. And I post what He teaches me.
[i]But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.[/i] Jas 3:14
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"I think", "I felt", "I believe" are so utterly and entirely drowned by "Thus Sayeth the Lord"! "I heard", "I saw", and even "I ate", but their thoughts, opinions, views, and ideals held no sway or even came to mind under the overwhelmingly potent, searingly bright, and awful dread they experienced in the presence of Almighty God.
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=1&topic_id=19832&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Need Info Concerning Chasity Programs[/url]
In your own words;
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Unfortunately, I'm still very carnal in certain areas and have a
tendency to bluntness to the point of rudeness when it comes to interacting
with Christians - I always seem to think I'm right for some strange
reason...
Until I know for sure whether my discernment about spiritual matters is
of God, and until I can get my flesh under my spirit, I must remain
anonymous.
Since I'm still failing miserably at most of these, I must not teach. I
would be a hypocrite - and we know where the hypocrites go.
How then could I teach after being baptised in the Holy Ghost only a
year ago?
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20038&forum=35&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0]A Rebuke to the Church[/url]
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Jesse, I've not seen your videos, but if this is true - if you're attacking sinners' character and calling them names - you need to re-examine what "Jesus" you serve... one's a lamb, and the other's a dragon wearing lambskins...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your own words indict you and yet you are quite willing to pass judgment on things you have neither seen nor read. Peevish, haughty, proud, self-righteousness, arrogant, hypocritical, factionist, smarmy, smart alek ... Take your pick, something indeed is amiss.
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I have such deep sadness in this post and in reading your response, it's unbelieveble.
Truly it is ...
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Mike Balog
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| | 2007/10/17 15:51 | Profile |
| | Re: Pride | | Quote:
Your own words indict you and yet you are quite willing to pass judgment on things you have neither seen nor read. Peevish, haughty, proud, self-righteousness, arrogant, hypocritical, factionist, smarmy, smart alek ... Take your pick, something indeed is amiss.
Things could be worse. I could be a seeker-sensitive yes-man and have the applause of the majority... |
| | 2007/10/17 21:22 | | Glenn_Bolan
Member
Joined: 2007/10/17
Posts: 1
| | Re: Pride | | Well said Mike.
I rarely ever post on forums - let alone take precious blood-bought time to read them, but I must say that I personally know Andrew Strom and I have had a chance to read his book even before it was in print.
Regarding Andrew's character, I've been in inner-city ministry for many years now in the heart of Los Angeles. I've been ministering to the homeless, the disenfranchised, the drug addics, the prostitutes, the gang-members, and many more. I've seen a plethora of false prophets (those out for money and personal gain, etc) and I've also seen the real thing (albeit very rarely). Let me say to you that brother Andrew has not even an inkling of a "false prophet". All I've seen since I've known him is his heart for the poor, for the sick state of the church, for genuine heaven-sent revival, for much prayer, and for promoting others' ministries. When he put his recent book out he felt clearly from God that he should push it (and I don't doubt that it should be pushed - especially in America). If anyone takes the time to read it, they will understand why its message is so critical - expressly in the wake of the "Prophetic Movement" and the "Kansas City Prophets".
I soberly counsel and exhort anyone reading this forum to be VERY CAREFUL with their words, remembering that "every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment" (Matt 12:36). Take heed to the Proverb: "The one who guards his mouth preserves his life; the one who opens wide his lips comes to ruin" (13:3).
I would certainly recommend "Why I Left the Prophetic Movement" to anyone interested in a more clear picture of what a mess the Western Church is in and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, how we can see GENUINE Revival in the midst of it.
Chapter 3 in his book is entitled "The 5 Keys To Discernment"
Key #1: "Know your HOLY GOD intimately. (When you have seen His glory, His holiness and His love - by drawing close to Him in prayer - then you can usually see through any counterfeits because you know the "real thing" so well)."
Let us take heed dear brothers!
Blessings, grace, and love to all,
Glenn A. Bolan
Los Angeles, CA |
| | 2007/10/17 22:49 | Profile | psalm1
Member
Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230
| | Re: | | I keep hearing 'kansas city prophets' ....if they are so bad just tell it like it is.
The only one i can think of is bickel. Is he the bad one?
Ive never heard of andrew strom either.
I am sure all the prophets have their problems.
Somehow it just seems too easy to 'prophesy against the prophets'
Am I missing something here? We are exorted to go out and buy a book of accusations against a group of prophets without a rebuttle from the accused group?
One of the accusations is "they have tables laden with books to make money"
Isnt andrew strom selling books?
I would sure like to hear from "the bad boys of K.C."
And who they are
....David |
| | 2007/10/17 23:55 | Profile | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | Do people know that they are calling out passionate men and women (warriors) of the Lord because it does not fit into your own personal "religious box" of what you feel is acceptable?
If the non-prophetic movement is like this...
Miccah
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Christiaan
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| | 2007/10/18 0:47 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
"The Kansas City Prophets"- And who they are?
There has long been people that have sought for a genuine revival in America. The "KC Prophets" as they came to be known were a group of men that some would say in the beginning started off well, but over time the whole movement towards revival jumped the rails.
There are many different articles on the web that deal with this group. Everyone associated with them that I have met has a story. Many have moved from other states and even countries to be a part of a revival that was to begin in Kansas City. There are many tales that are said that point to KC as being a sort of ground zero for the next great move of God. Some have said that KC is the prophetic city at the mouth of the KAW (Kansas) river. I have researched this, but the info I have is not complete. We do know that Charles Parham's group at Stone's Folly in Topeka experienced the first real documented Pentecostal outpouring in America that resulted in speaking in tongues.
To make a long story short, many things went wrong. Many people were hurt and ceased to attend church at all- anywhere. There are many out-of-Church today Christians in Kansas City. I have met many personally and had limited fellowship with them. Some are so hurt that they go through a whole process that is almost a wilderness wandering. As a 'church' guy this all too odd to me, nevertheless it is what has happened.
Andrew knew the situation here. He believed God had sent him to KC to rally these folk together and begin to seek for genuine revival. I met Andrew and his family when they arrived in KC and spent several months ministering with him in various capacities seeking God for revival. It seemed as though things were going well as he preached in a local church the message, "Repentance in Kansas City."
The challenge was and still is that the type of message that really needs to be delivered is not welcome in most churches. Pastors are very cautious of allowing folk to come in that have an aggressive message as they are viewed as 'loose canons'. A loose canon was one that was not rightly secured in a ship and could actually go off and blast a hole in your own boat. When resistance is raised it becomes hard not to view them as 'anti-revival' etc. But I think the situation is much more complex than that.
I have to admit from many conversations that I recall having with Andrew that he always held out hope for redemption of the KC scene. That is why he came here. He was very optimistic- or at least cautiously optimistic of what could happen. We had started in 2004 having small meetings in parks, homes and finally at the old Metro Church- the scene of the former KC prophet movement. It is a huge building. So we met in the cafeteria for some number of weeks.
There was a pretty good attendance. Folk seemed to be receptive. Then a large prophetic gathering was held at the Metro church- so large that I never saw so many cars at a church. Bob Jones would be there also. People were parked down the road and at storefront parking lots across the road from the church. Andrew had HIGH HOPES of God working in this meeting- especially after the revelation of certain things had happened with a certain main member. He thought it would bring them to repent and seek God for a real move of God. He was vexed to see it would be business as usual.
The first message he preached after returning from that conference carried the now infamous line (at least in my memory), "It didn't feel like God to me." In that message he outlined (lamented) what happened. I have not read the book, but know first hand much of what was happening at the time within the context of his experience. I think that event was the turning point for Andrew in KC. It was not long after and IHOP (International House of Prayer) looked to re-purchase the old Metro church and our meetings were effectively ended.
So he took to preaching in various places. At last we got together for a homeless outreach in KC down at the notorious 'Jurassic Park'. My father had been in homeless ministry regularly for a long time. Our church at various times has ministered to the homeless for a long time. We handed out food, clothing, coats, gloves, drinks, etc. and prayed one on one with occasional preaching open air.
When Andrew left Kansas City he felt that the doors were shut to him and he was blocked out by the gate keepers. He believed God was moving Him on. This was late 2006. As a final note to it all I think that the message was rejected in part because the people (especially the pastors) were not prepared to hear it. Folk that are truly out-of-church are nearly impossible to assemble. Many of these people came to KC believing God wanted to use them as 'John the Baptist' [i]type[/i] preachers. Their's is a case I suppose of severe disillusionment. They have one gear only, "FULL-ON take no prisoners type repentance". I have often wondered if a smoother entry may have made the way for more open doors. But only God really knows that.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2007/10/18 0:56 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
Do people know that they are calling out passionate men and women (warriors) of the Lord because it does not fit into your own personal "religious box" of what you feel is acceptable?
I think it is fair to say that we were willing to accept any move of God that was biblical. We are not ceasationists. I am Pentecostal- but prefer to believe I am also not in flakesville. I believe in the prophetic unction of God and have witnessed my share of 'manifestations'. The concern has been- that folk are [u]not[/u] being called to genuine repentance accompanied by genuine godly sorrow and faith leading to a genuine born again experience and baptism in the Holy Spirit. One particular area of concern is the Song of Solomon focus.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2007/10/18 1:07 | Profile |
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