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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : In what way does God will sin?

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roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
God may use the sin, but never wills, ordains or causes the sin.



Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Brother who said this? I believe it was God.

But what you do not understand is that I am not saying God is the author of sin, He allows it to further His purposes.

I never said the Crucifixion itself was sin, but the men who did it were sinning by committing murder as even the Scriptures I posted show.

And how can you say God did not foreordain the Crucifixion? When Scripture speaks in opposition to your view?

God uses sin in the child of God to chasten and refine him as well. He does not approve of it, but He uses it to His glory. That is why all things are working together for good, because God is a sovereign ruler and there is nothing that happens apart from His allowing it to happen.

Even Satan's works are allowed by God, and kept in check by God's power.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/9/17 22:42Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Logic, HopePurifies, and Nile, did you even read the length of my post, or did you load the gun the moment you thought your view was under attack? I'm being straight-forward with you...

HopePurifies, what you wrote to me was uncalled for, disgusting character for a believing woman.

Did you read my post thoughtfully? I did not imply that God produces sin or invokes sin. I wrote my points plainly enough and I will not restate them again. Please go back and read, then reply sensibly instead of attacking with teeth like swords.

Logic and Nile, I appreciate your eagerness to defend your view of truth, but please make responses directly to my statements or else I will not be able to follow your arguments.

Please don't respond at all if you will not counter my statements directly.

With love, but also with hurt at the inconsiderate temperament of this thread,
- Mike:.

 2007/9/18 1:16Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
Quote:
God may use the sin, but never wills, ordains or causes the sin.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Brother who said this? I believe it was God.

God does not create moral evil as you are implying.
Quote:
And how can you say God did not foreordain the Crucifixion? When Scripture speaks in opposition to your view?

As I said, God din't for-ordaine the sin of Cruifying Christ, only the act of the Cruifixion of Christ.


Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
God uses sin in the child of God to chasten and refine him as well. He does not approve of it, but He uses it to His glory.

He will use sin, but never ordain it, will it, want it, make it...

 2007/9/18 9:00Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Hope to carry on this conversation when I return, I will be out of town for a week with my wife.

God bless you all, and keep us in your prayers if you are so led.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/9/18 9:19Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
theopenlife wrote:
Logic, HopePurifies, and Nile, did you even read the length of my post, or did you load the gun the moment you thought your view was under attack? I'm being straight-forward with you...

I just put all you said into one streight forward answer.

 2007/9/18 11:43Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
theopenlife wrote:
HopePurifies, what you wrote to me was uncalled for, disgusting character for a believing woman.

Quote:
HopePurifies wrote:
Children of God do not assign sin to God.
If your theology makes God the author or enabler or willer of sin, YOUR THEOLOGY IS WRONG, and you are of the devil.

I understand your comment.
"you are [b]of[/b] the devil, not you are the devil."
As in, [b]that way of thinking is of[/b] the devil.

It is the same as me claiming that the way roaringlamb describes God and the way he interprets the bible makes God out to be a devilish tyrant.
Not that roaringlamb is one.

 2007/9/18 11:50Profile
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Quote:
HopePurifies, what you wrote to me was uncalled for, disgusting character for a believing woman.

Did you read my post thoughtfully? I did not imply that God produces sin or invokes sin. I wrote my points plainly enough and I will not restate them again.



If you didn't mean that, then I wasn't talking to you. I mean it towards those who do. You would agree that anyone who would charge God with producing or invoking sin would be of the devil, too, right? So do I. So what's the difference between all that and willing sin? I'm not sure myself.
Very simple.


_________________
Melanie

 2007/9/21 16:39Profile
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re: In what way does God will sin?

Quote:
James 1:13-14, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."

So why does God at times do this? Just as Thomas Watson said, "God permits this inability in His people--to humble us." When no temptation exists we may drink righteousness all day long. If we forget that even this thirst for righteousness comes from grace, God may permit temptation to appear and may withhold His hand from us for a time. Momentarily allowing us to have our way without grace, God shows us that our way is easily corrupted. This shames and frightens us for ever having forgotten the grace and goodness of God that enables us for every good work. As Watson wrote, it makes us flee to Christ, to answer for us all the demands of the law, and set us free in the court of Divine justice."



God isn't really like this. Let me explain.
For one, temptation can come, and you can still drink of righteousness all day long. In fact, many Christians rejoice in this truth. Second, we are to pray for God to not tempt us in the Lord's prayer. This is a prayer the Lord wills and will honor. As far as withholding grace, God never withholds grace, although man
may pervert his own way and "fall from grace". But the end result of us falling away from grace is the same way the author put it. God uses evil that occurs for good.

As an open theist I can say that God did not "KNOW" sin would happen, although He knew it was a possibility. That debate is in a different thread.

A lot of this article is redeemable and I do like that the author of this piece does not charge God with authoring sin as others have in this thread and elsewhere. The last paragraph is awesome. I wish more people realized it.

Quote:
Dear believers, may God help you to rest in His mercy to provide all grace for every good work, grace to strengthen us against every temptation. If we sin, it is our fault; yet if we do any good work, let us remember the words of our Savior, John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."


_________________
Melanie

 2007/9/21 17:07Profile





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