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BeYeDoers
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Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 KJV English

In KJVese, is there a difference in meaning between will and shall? if not, why did the translators use both...often in the same passage?


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Denver McDaniel

 2007/9/15 11:27Profile
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 Re: KJV English

From Websters 1828


[b]Shall
SHALL, [/b]

1. Shall is primarily in the present, and in our mother tongue was followed by a verb in the infinitive, like other verbs. "Ic sceal fram the beon gefullod." I have need to be baptized of thee. "Ic nu sceal singan sar-cwidas." I must now sing mornful songs.

We still use shall and should before another verb in the infinitive, without the sign to; but significance of shall is considerably deflected from its primitive sense. It is now treated as a mere auxiliary to other verbs, serving to form some of the tenses. In the present tense, shall, before a verb in the infinitive, forms the future tense; but its force and effect are different with different persons or personal pronouns. Thus in the first person, shall simply foretells or declares what will take place; as, I or we shall ride to town on Monday. This declaration simply informs another of a fact that is to take place. The sense of shall here is changed from an expression of need or duty, to that of previous statement or information, grounded on intention or resolution. When uttered with emphasis, "I shall go," it expresses firm determination, but not a promise.

2. In the second and third persons, shall implies a promise, command or determination. "You shall receive your wages," "he shall receive his wages," imply that you or he ought to receive them; but usage gives these phrases the force of a promise in the person uttering them.

When shall is uttered with emphasis in such phrases, it expresses determination in the speaker, and implies an authority to enforce the act. "Do you refuse to go? Does he refuse to go? But you or he shall go."

3. Shall I go, shall he go, interrogatively, asks, for permission or direction. But shall you go, asks for information of another's intention.

4. But after another verb, shall, in the third person, simply foretells. He says that he shall leave town to-morrow. So also in the second person; you say that you shall ride to-morrow.

5. After if, and some verbs which expresscondition or supposition, shall, in all the persons, simply foretells; as,

If I shall say, or we shall say,

Thou shalt say, ye or you shall say,

He shall say, they shall say.

6. Should, in the first person, implies a conditional event. "I should have written a letter yesterday, had I not been interrupted." Or it expresses obligation, and that in all the persons.

I should, have paid the bill on demand; it was my duty, your duty, his duty to

Thou shouldest, pay the bill on demand, but it was not paid.

He should,

You should,

7. Should, though properly the past tense of shall, is often used to express a contingent future event; as, if it should rain to-morrow; if you should go to London next week; if he should arrive within a month. In like manner after though, grant, admit, allow.


[b]Will[/b]
WILL, n. [See the Verb.]

1. That faculty of the mind by which we determine either to do or forbear an action; the faculty which is exercised in deciding, among two or more objects, which we shall embrace or pursue. The will is directed or influenced by the judgment. The understanding or reason compares different objects, which operate as motives; the judgment determines which is preferable, and the will decides which to pursue. In other words, we reason with respect to the value or importance of things; we then judge which is to be preferred; and we will to take the most valuable. These are but different operations of the mind, soul, or intellectual part of man. Great disputes have existed respecting the freedom of the will. Will is often quite a different thing from desire.

A power over a mans subsistence, amounts to a power over his will.

2. Choice; determination. It is my will to prosecute the trespasser.

3. Choice; discretion; pleasure.

Go, then, the guilty at thy will chastise.

4. Command; direction.

Our prayers should be according to the will of God.

5. Disposition; inclination; desire. What is your will, Sir? In this phrase, the word may also signify determination, especially when addressed to a superior.

6. Power; arbitrary disposal.

Deliver me not over to the will of my enemies. Psa 27.

7. Divine determination; moral purpose or counsel.

Thy will be done. Lords Prayer.

8. Testament; the disposition of a mans estate, to take effect after his death. Wills are written, or nuncupative, that is, verbal.

Good will,

1. Favor; kindness.

2. Right intention. Phil 1.

Ill will, enmity; unfriendliness. It expresses less than malice.

To have ones will, to obtain what is desired.

At will. To hold an estate at the will of another, is to enjoy the possession at his pleasure, and be liable to be ousted at any time by the lessor or proprietor.

Will with a wisp, Jack with a lantern; ignis fatuus; a luminous appearance sometimes seen in the air over moist ground, supposed to proceed from hydrogen gas.

WILL, v.t. [G., L., Gr. The sense is to set, or to set forward, to stretch forward. The sense is well expressed by the L.]

1. To determine; to decide int he mind that something shall be done or forborne; implying power to carry the purpose into effect. In this manner God wills whatever comes to pass. So in the style of princes; we will that execution be done.

A man that sits still is said to be at liberty, because he can walk if he will it.

2. To command; to direct.

Tis yours, O queen! To will the work which duty bids me to fulfill.

3. To be inclined or resolved to have.

There, there, Hortensio, will you any wife?

4. To wish; to desire. What will you?

5. To dispose of estate and effects by testament.

6. It is sometimes equivalent to may be. Let the circumstances be what they will; that is, any circumstances, of whatever nature.

7. Will is used as an auxiliary verb, and a sign of the future tense. It has different signification in different persons.

1. I will go, is a present promise to go; and with an emphasis on will, it expresses determination.

2. Thou wilt go, you will go, express foretelling; simply stating an event that is to come.

3. He will go, is also a foretelling. The use of will in the plural, is the same. We will, promises; ye will, they will, foretell.


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/9/15 12:14Profile
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re:

Quote:
In KJVese, is there a difference in meaning between will and shall? if not, why did the translators use both...often in the same passage?


No, no difference, the Websters is talking about contemporary 19th century English not the English of the 17th Century.

[color=0033FF]But whosoever [u]shall deny[/u] me before men, him [u]will I also deny[/u] before my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 10:33 KJVS)[/color]

Here the KJV has opted for shall and will, but the verbs are both Future Indicative. As to why? Tyndale adopted a mode of translation (which has continued in some of the later versions) of 'studied variety'. He consciously tried to broaden the sense of words when one English word could not quite do the job. The classsic example is...

[color=0033FF]Let that therefore [u]abide[/u] in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall [u]remain[/u] in you, ye also shall [u]continue[/u] in the Son, and in the Father. (1John 2:24 KJVS)[/color]

Where each underlined word is the same Greek verb 'menO'. This shows the breadth of the word but loses the power of the repitition.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/9/16 11:10Profile









 Re: KJV English

I thought it had something to do with the evolution of the English language. Some used Shall others used Will. Eventually, shall was dropped from everyday lingo.

 2007/9/16 11:41
BeYeDoers
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Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

oops...didn't see Ron's post...that cleared up the question that I was going to post here :-)


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Denver McDaniel

 2007/9/16 15:50Profile





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