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roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | The hope is Christ, and His life in me.
That is it, I am accepted because of Christ's death and resurrection. Now that His Spirit abides in me, I am being sanctified, and then when I see Him, I will be like Him because I will be transformed when I receive the glorified body at the resurrection of the dead.
I am sorry if this is depressing, but Christ promised the Cross in the here and now and that is a slow painful death, but He also promised glory in the life to come, and for that we must joyfully wait.
Now for anyone who say it is possible to live sinlessly in this life, what of this verse-
Romans 14:23b [b]" for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."[/b]
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patrick heaviside
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 2007/9/14 18:21 | Profile |
hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
| | Re: | | this verse is also quite "refreshing" James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
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CHRISTIAN
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| 2007/9/14 18:23 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Roaringlamb,
Suppose everyone in the world sins. Suppose even those who believe sinlessness is possible still continue to sin. That does not disprove the fact that the bible requires that we cease from sin.
I have sinned in the past. I could sin in the future. I know that I am not sinning now. And I know that if I do sin, I don't have to. All sin is avoidable and God always provides a way of escape.
Even if everyone in the world sins, God still says we must cease from sin.
Your argument that sinning disproves the possibility of sinlessness is a fallacy. Sinning simply proves that people are not living free from sin, but it does not prove that people cannot live free from sin.
I would be depressed all the time if I thought I had to constantly sin until I die. That message is such bondage! But the bible offers freedom and liberty in Christ! You never have to sin again! You can actually obey God! Don't let the devil lie to you, YOU CAN STOP SINNING!! Praise God!! |
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| 2007/9/14 18:24 | |
hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
| | Re: | | Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
what do you people make of this verse? to me it is clear.
and this one
1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
I do not believe in "sinless perfection" but pretty close :-) i do believe there are victory over all sin
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CHRISTIAN
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| 2007/9/14 18:31 | Profile |
roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
Even if everyone in the world sins, God still says we must cease from sin.
Brother if you are anything like me, there are things that are sin to you now that were not even a year ago. Now if we died then would we have gone to hell?
To say that we must have absolutely no sin in this life to be accepted is right in one sense, because the sins of God's people have been laid upon Christ, thus removing the guilt and granting pardon, This is why Paul can dare to say-
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and [b]whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/b]
So it does not say anything there about sinless perfection, but rather glorification. Paul uses similar language in Ephesians and refers to us being seated in the Heavenly places with Christ.
As I have stated many times, a regenerated heart is a justified heart, and that justified heart will be being made a sanctified heart.
And no I do not believe that a man can indulge in sin without conviction and be a Christian just so the record is straight. A true child of God will have extreme displeasure with sin in his or her life.
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patrick heaviside
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| 2007/9/14 18:33 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Are you saying that because Christ died for us, God pardons fornicators while they remain fornicators? Does God forgive child molesters even if they continue to molest?
Don't sodomites need to give up sodomy if they want forgiveness? Don't blasphemers need to give up blasphemy if they want to be forgiven? Don't liars need to give up lying if they want to be forgiven?
And if these types of sinners need to stop their sin in order to be forgiven, why don't all types of sinners need to stop their sinning in order to be forgiven?
Isn't pardon from God conditional upon repentance? Or is repentance an optional choice you can make after being forgiven, but not something you must do first in order to be forgiven? |
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| 2007/9/14 18:37 | |
roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
Isn't pardon from God conditional upon repentance?
Pardon from God is based upon justification brought by faith which is only in the regenerated heart. God Himself births new life into the heart, and thus establishes new desires so that the molester now does not want to molest, the blasphemer no longer wants to blaspheme etc.
You come at this the wrong way supposing a man can fix himself, or re-birth himself and that is why you do not understand that a forgiven soul is a new soul even though there are remnants of sin that must be dealt with.
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patrick heaviside
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| 2007/9/14 18:44 | Profile |
| | Re: | | So do you need to repent before you can be justified or do you repent after you've been justified?
Isn't repentance necessary in order to get saved? |
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| 2007/9/14 18:50 | |
roaringlamb
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California
| | Re: | | Quote:
Isn't repentance necessary in order to get saved?
Yes. the regenerate heart now sees its crime against God, and sees Christ as the only Saviour from the penalty.
Repentance and faith must go together as one cannot go without the other, forgive me for overlooking that in my previous post.
But man will not repent until he has a new heart. That is where we will mainly disagree. I see the Gospel as being God's saving of people who don't even want to be saved(not violating their wills but renewing them so they desire Christ), and want nothing to do with Christ. But then the grace of God comes and by His Spirit enables men to believe, and receive justification.
This is why the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, because they cannot see any value in it with natural eyes.
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patrick heaviside
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| 2007/9/14 19:09 | Profile |
Logic
Member
Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791
| | Re: | | Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
But man will not repent until he has a new heart.
Getting a new heart(regeneration, born again) is salvation.
Therfore, you are saying that one needs to be saved in order to repent.
Quote:
roaringlamb wrote:
I see the Gospel as being God's saving of people who don't even want to be saved(not violating their wills but renewing them so they desire Christ), and want nothing to do with Christ.
God saves people by convicting them of their sin so they will repent to be saved.
The conviction gives one a desire for Christ to save from the sin being convicted of. |
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| 2007/9/14 19:26 | Profile |
