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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1Corinth 2:14

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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 1Corinth 2:14

This pet scriptur has been used by some people to proove their point an some matter.

I would like to disect this scripture to show that there is no inability for the natural man to come to receive the things of the Spirit of God.

[b]1Corinth 2:14[/b] [color=990000]But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.[/color]
This inability is like saying that one can not because a refusal to do a prior requirement for the ability to do the other.
Example:
[b]John 14:17[/b] [color=990000]the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you.[/color]
Just as the first verse, the sencond has no implication of inability and one must not asume that they do.

Just as the natural man is not able to know the things of the Spirit of God because the natural man chooses not to receive them.

[b]Recieving is not the same as knowing.[/b]
The reason for the inability of knowing "the things of the Spirit of God" is because of the refusale or unwillingness to recieve them.
There is no inability implied in recieving "the things of the Spirit of God"
Just as:
The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth because chooses not see Him nor know Him.
There is no inability implied in seeing Him(the Spirit of Truth) or knowing Him.
Therefore, the reason of these inabilitis are because of the refusal or unwillingness of seeing Him(the Spirit of Truth) or knowing Him.
and refusal or unwillingness of recieving "the things of the Spirit of God"

Again, the "not seeing Him or knowing Him" does not imply inability, man only chooses not to or is unwilling to see Him or to know Him.
There is no inability to see God or to know Him, because God has has went to great lengths to make sure that all mankind can see Him or know Him.

The foolishness of the things of the Spirit of God does not make a natural man unable to receive them, for he is able to receive them by seeing Him or by knowing Him.

The foolishness of the things of the Spirit of God only makes him unable to know them because because they are spiritually discerned.

[b]NO![/b] God does not, first, need to give the ability(your so called regeneration), otherwise it is an inability until He gives, inreturn, make man inocent because of the inability.

 2007/9/8 13:43Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re: 1Corinth 2:14

This is according to Scripture...

Amen
In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/10 7:02Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re: 1Corinth 2:14

Quote:

Logic wrote:
This pet scriptur has been used by some people to proove their point an some matter.

I would like to disect this scripture to show that there is no inability for the natural man to come to receive the things of the Spirit of God.

[b]1Corinth 2:14[/b] [color=990000]But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.[/color]
This inability is like saying that one can not because a refusal to do a prior requirement for the ability to do the other.
Example:
[b]John 14:17[/b] [color=990000]the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you.[/color]
Just as the first verse, the sencond has no implication of inability and one must not asume that they do.

Just as the natural man is not able to know the things of the Spirit of God because the natural man chooses not to receive them.

[b]Recieving is not the same as knowing.[/b]
The reason for the inability of knowing "the things of the Spirit of God" is because of the refusale or unwillingness to recieve them.
There is no inability implied in recieving "the things of the Spirit of God"
Just as:
The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth because chooses not see Him nor know Him.
There is no inability implied in seeing Him(the Spirit of Truth) or knowing Him.
Therefore, the reason of these inabilitis are because of the refusal or unwillingness of seeing Him(the Spirit of Truth) or knowing Him.
and refusal or unwillingness of recieving "the things of the Spirit of God"

Again, the "not seeing Him or knowing Him" does not imply inability, man only chooses not to or is unwilling to see Him or to know Him.
There is no inability to see God or to know Him, because God has has went to great lengths to make sure that all mankind can see Him or know Him.

The foolishness of the things of the Spirit of God does not make a natural man unable to receive them, for he is able to receive them by seeing Him or by knowing Him.

The foolishness of the things of the Spirit of God only makes him unable to know them because because they are spiritually discerned.

[b]NO![/b] God does not, first, need to give the ability(your so called regeneration), otherwise it is an inability until He gives, inreturn, make man inocent because of the inability.




Brother,

Please let me know Scripturally why all men apart from God's working are unwilling to understand, seek or turn to God. You describe correctly the problem without convincing of the cause. Further, if you believe all men, apart from the work of the Spirit, have a will in them to turn to God, then you have a great burden in explaining the necessity of being born again, being a new creature, or haviing a quickening of a spirit within you. All these point to creation of life where there was deadness. What is the meaning of this supernatural event if men are able to turn themselves to God? Are they merely hyperbole. Don't you think it meaningful that in John 3:1 and following, Christ explains to Nicodemas that he must be born again to see ( that is to know ) the kingdom of God and then, He explains the Gospel to Nicodemas in John 3:16?

 2007/9/10 7:57Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear brother whyme, i wrote about this is another thread, but it continues to beg the question...

why does one have to be born again before one is born again?? here is what i mean. you are saying that a natural man cannot and will not choose Christ without a new heart. the new heart comes by the new birth of being born again. so you believe that one needs to be regenerated before one can be regenerated.

epphesians 2:8 tells us that we are saved by God's grace only after we have used faith (as the vehicle) to receive His grace. then we are saved (born again, made anew, etc)

the bible shows these steps to salvation
1) man places faith in God (faith according to the strong's dictionary means reliance upon Christ [b]for salvation[/b]. so one must not be born again or regenerated if one is hoping [b]for salvation[/b])
2) man receives God's grace (which according to strong's dictionary is the favour, gift, graciousness of God)
3) man is saved (born again, made anew, etc).

do you see that the bible tells us that first we must reach out to God with faith (reliance upon God [b]for salvation[/b]/strong's) and receive His grace that will then save us and make us a new creation.

so brother whyme, biblically one cannot be born again to become saved...it just doesn't work out that way.

ps. before you may write back that the natural man would not choose Christ, please know that i agree with you. a man left to himself would not choose Christ. but a natural man who has been drawn by the Holy Spirit and convicted of his sins, may and does sometimes choose Christ. please re-read what i just wrote you and look at ephesians 2 slowly and look at the order of salvation in verse 8 and meditate on it and i believe that it may just change the way you see salvation..

love you brother,
phil



 2007/9/10 8:24Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 766


 Re:

Men love darkness rather than light. We are unable to come to the knowledge of realizing that we need a savior. The natural man does not know that he is an enemy of God and God's wrath resides on him. I firmly believe that God chooses those for salvation. If we had a choose, then who would be sovereign? God does it all.

hope that didn't go off subject to much/

 2007/9/10 23:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Quote:
Men love darkness rather than light. We are unable to come to the knowledge of realizing that we need a savior.



How did you, who once lived in darkness, come into the light?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/11 0:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Quote:
If we had a choose, then who would be sovereign? God does it all.



In the examples of the testimonies of Cain and Abel, we find that it is God who gives us a choice. Whom do we choose to follow determines who our father is, or whose seed we grow up into.

Cain was exhorted to repent and turn towards God. God warned Cain that if he did not obey, Satan was waiting at the door.

What does Paul mean when he teaches in Romans 1...

Rom. 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

What does it mean that "God gave them over"? Why did God do this? These are essential questions that each of us must face. Whom do we fear, God or man?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/11 0:49Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

One must only believe, then he is born again.

John 20:29-31 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

1 Peter 1:19-23 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/9/11 5:49Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
One must only believe, then he is born again.



Who or what leads one to believe?

In Christ
jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/9/11 6:08Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
One must only believe, then he is born again.



Who or what leads one to believe?

In Christ
jeff





Brother Rookie,

If I mess up with the chain of salvation, please forgive me.

I start at the end and work backwards. Lastly, Believers choose. Previous to choosing, they trust in Christ. Previous to trusting, they believe. Previous to believing is faith. Previous to faith is understanding the truth. Previous to understanding is having the mind enlightened. Previous to enlightenment is hearing of the word. Previous to hearing is preaching or revelation.

The question of source or cause of choosing by an individual must be traced through this chain. If you look at this process, either as a single even or over a lifetime, it seems based on Scripture's description of the natural man, that he is unable to choose without faith which is from God, he is unable to have faith without understanding which comes from God and he is unable to understand without revelation which is from God.

It seems that in order for all men to have an opportunity to come to Christ that all men would have to recieve sufficient faith and sufficient understanding to choose. I could be argued that men choose to receive the understanding and the faith but it would seem incomprehensible because again choice is at the end of the spectrum of salvific responses by man and not the beginning.

 2007/9/11 8:18Profile





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