bro Nile Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.
God does not know that I have a 12 year old son.Because I don't.
Likewise, God does know the decisions I will make in the future.
_________________Farai Bamu
Nile is definitely right on this one. God knows all objects of knowledge. God knows with certainty the aspects of the future that are certain, and God knows as possible the aspects of the future that are possible. God knows all of reality as it is. What is open God knows as open and what is settled God knows as settled.Omniscience is knowing all objects of knowledge. Our freewill choices are contingent so God knows them as contingent, and when we make a determination God knows it as certain. The nature of objects of knowledge are subject to change.
God does not know that I have a 12 year old son.Because I don't.God does not know about the elephant in my room.Because it doesn't exist.Likewise, God does know the decisions I will make in the future.Because they don't exist yet.
God only knows things which are knowable
_________________Josh Parsley
As far as I'm concerned none of that really has anything to do with knowledge. Knowledge deals with facts. How do you define knowledge? Your definition seems a little off to me.
"God does know that you don't have a 12 year old son.God does know about you not having an elephant in your room."Likewise God knows what part of the future is open and God knows what part of the future is already determined. What God has already determined is settled and what God let's us determine is not yet determined. God knows what is possible and God knows what is settled.God foreknows all the decisions that we could make. And God knows that our choices are contingent. God knows we have the power of contingency and therefore the future is partly open:[u]Jeremiah 18:710[/u] "At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them."Jesus taught that the future was partly open and that certain events were contingent:[u]Mt 26:53[/u] - "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?"Did not the prophet, who illustrated bondage to Paul using a belt, show that he believed the future was partly open when he persuaded with Paul not to go to Jerusalem? [u]Acts 21:11-12[/u]
Omniscience is knowing all objects of knowledge. Our freewill choices are contingent so God knows them as contingent, and when we make a determination God knows it as certain. The nature of objects of knowledge are subject to change.
_________________Ron Bailey
Jeremiah 18:10 "At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them."
bro lazarusGreetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.
Nile is definitely right on this one. God knows all objects of knowledge. God knows with certainty the aspects of the future that are certain, and God knows as possible the aspects of the future that are possible. God knows all of reality as it is. What is open God knows as open and what is settled God knows as settled.
IRONMANI like you but...I know that the Lord is not telling you to rebuke Satan the way you are doing because it is very clear that you are merely reacting to your inability to understand the logic behind what we are trying to show you. You're disgusted at Nile's theology and so you're trying to use an emotional attack and hide it under spirituality.Which is quite a despicable thing to do.You're not getting your rebuke from the spirit but from your limited understanding. You have spoken rashly and equated an understanding different than yours as equal to Peter telling Jesus not to be crucified. Lord rebuke you, Satan.I now refer you all to an interesting article:https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic_pdf.php?topic_id=17954&forum=34.Edit: But we all make mistakes, so I do forgive you, bro.
_________________Melanie
The cross of Christ is God's righteous vindication of his own holiness and is a demonstration of holy love. Did Christ die for yours/our sins. As I am writing this in the 21st century it is obvious that I had not sinned any of my own sins when Christ died on Golgotha.So did he bear my sins or didn't he? Did he bear them in principle or in actuality? Did he carry the sin of the world or just the sin of the preceding generations which were known to God. Can you see what folly open theism leads us into?If my sins were part of the unknowable future the sacrifice of Calvary was accomplished 'ignorant' of my personal sin. There are not many options open to such a view. Did Christ pick up some unknown bill that he paid so that, in that sense, I cannot say with Paul 'who loved me and died for me' for I was unknowable to God at that time, as was my sin. Christ only 'died for me' in the most general sense. This is particularly pertinent to me as my first consciousness of God's dealing in my life was on this specific issue. I had always believed that Christ died for sins, in a general sort of a way. What arrested me was the understanding that he died for my sins and took my place, and that he had loved me from before the foundation of the earth. [color=0033FF]I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:23-24 NKJV)[/color]If God loved me as he loved his Son, and he loved his Son before the foundation of the earth, then he loved me before the foundation of the earth. But according to 'open theology' my very existentence was an 'unknowable' at the time of Christ's death and the notion that he loved me before the foundation of the earth is just a pleasant fiction.Open theism is not just an interesting sideline, it strikes at the very heart of revelation. Every fact and actuality is known to God from the beginning to the end. It will not do to say bring in silly stories about the universe being supported by pink elephants. Such things are not actualities, neither in the past, the present of the future. God knows that it is not so and never will be so.The open theists have found themselves trapped in a linear universe and they have concluded that God himself is trapped in the same time/space process, but God is not in time and space in the way that creatures are in time and space. Time and space are in Him, and the Spirit of God knows all that is in God. The future is in God now; He is the I AM, and consequently there is nothing that was or is or will be that is not known to him.He knew my sin when he bore it on the cross. He bore today's sin and tomorrow's. Calvary will need no updates.
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