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Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 The Time of Japheth's Troubles ...



Yep you read it right ... Japheth's Troubles ... The descendants of those whom He said thru Noah would enlarge and prosper ... And yep it's long, and not for everybody ...

Over on another thread ...

[b]Hugo Chavez & Understanding an Emerging Independent South America (audio) ...[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19345&forum=48&4

... i posted a set of things i wondered about in connection with the apparent escalating failings, and God's subsequent correction of His apparently majority Laodicean type Church (saints) here in America, and to my surprise our Lord (i believe) thru bro Jeff answered my "wonderings" all out of Amos ...

Amos to me in this context was so striking, and chilling, i believe it worthy of a thread of its own ... The quotes are my wonderings that bro Jeff picked out ... The scriptures are the answers i believe Him led of Holy Spirit to post


Quote:
i think we in the USA have suffered some of our dire reaping during the Civil War, Nam, 9/11, and wonder to what extent our future reaping, in light of all the unGodly seed we as a supposedly Christian nation have continued to sow since will affect us ..


[color=000099]Amos 4:5 Offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving with leaven,
Proclaim and announce the freewill offerings;
For this you love,
You children of Israel!”
Says the Lord GOD.
6 “Also I gave you cleanness of teeth in all your cities.
And lack of bread in all your places;
Yet you have not returned to Me,”
Says the LORD.
7 “I also withheld rain from you,
When there were still three months to the harvest.
I made it rain on one city,
I withheld rain from another city.
One part was rained upon,
And where it did not rain the part withered.
8 So two or three cities wandered to another city to drink water,
But they were not satisfied;
Yet you have not returned to Me,”
Says the LORD.
9 “I blasted you with blight and mildew.
When your gardens increased,
Your vineyards,
Your fig trees,
And your olive trees,
The locust devoured them;
Yet you have not returned to Me,”
Says the LORD.
10 “I sent among you a plague after the manner of Egypt;
Your young men I killed with a sword,
Along with your captive horses;
I made the stench of your camps come up into your nostrils;
Yet you have not returned to Me,”
Says the LORD.
11 “I overthrew some of you,
As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah,
And you were like a firebrand plucked from the burning;
Yet you have not returned to Me,”
Says the LORD.[/color]


Quote:
i also wonder if both European inspired World Wars were more a direct result of the type of apparent hypocritical Christianity practiced amongst themselves and toward percieved lesser people than themselves, a reaping of what was sown ... So called Christian Great Britain has an atrocious history of it's treatment of others, as does the USA,


[color=000099]Amos 4:

4 Hear this, you who swallow up the needy,
And make the poor of the land fail,

Amos 8:5 Saying:
“When will the New Moon be past,
That we may sell grain?
And the Sabbath,
That we may trade wheat?
Making the ephah small and the shekel large,
Falsifying the scales by deceit,
6 That we may buy the poor for silver,
And the needy for a pair of sandals—
Even sell the bad wheat?”
7 The LORD has sworn by the pride of Jacob:
“Surely I will never forget any of their works.[/color]


Quote:
Whod'a ever thunk it that so rich a nation, would now be the largest debtor nation forced to send emissaries to China in attempts of getting them to continue to buy our debt ... This all reminds me of the scripture
in the Revelation that says, "He who leadeth into captivity, shall be led into captivity" ...


[color=000099]Amos 3:11 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD:
“An adversary shall be all around the land;
He shall sap your strength from you,
And your palaces shall be plundered.”[/color]


Quote:
You'd think so called Christian Western nations would understand that reaping what is sown, and one can't serve God and money, are sermons Jesus directly preached - but i guess it's a losing battle when
folk try to juggle the rules of Providence with the attaining of prosperity too .


[color=000099]Amos 2:6 Thus says the LORD:
“For three transgressions of Israel, and for four,
I will not turn away its punishment,
Because they sell the righteous for silver,
And the poor for a pair of sandals.
7 They pant after the dust of the earth which is on the head of the poor,
And pervert the way of the humble.
A man and his father go in to the same girl,
To defile My holy name.
8 They lie down by every altar on clothes taken in pledge,
And drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god.


Amos 5:20 Is not the day of the LORD darkness, and not light?
Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?
21 “I hate, I despise your feast days,
And I do not savor your sacred assemblies.
22 Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings,
I will not accept them,
Nor will I regard your fattened peace offerings.
23 Take away from Me the noise of your songs,
For I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments.
24 But let justice run down like water,
And righteousness like a mighty stream.[/color]



Quote:
Blessings in Christ Jesus who is able to forgive us of ALL our sins, and clense us from ALL unrighteousness - if we'd only REPENT! ...



[color=000099]Amos 9:

8 “Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are on the sinful kingdom,
And I will destroy it from the face of the earth;
Yet I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,”
Says the LORD.[/color]

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff



--- You know if it were not for SI i would have never known about the truly great moves (Revivals), and men of God, that have come out of Western Europe, particularly in Britain, seemingly lesser in the U.S., tho we too have had our great Godly men, and Revivals ... i point this out because history seems to show me that tho the initial carriers of the Gospel were all of Shemitic descent, eventually the main, majority, and mighty vessels and purveyors of the Gospel came to be those of Japhethic descent, expanding everywhere, and anywhere they enlarged ...

Now before anyone can take offense, my following observations are not based on, nor directed at true "remnant Christians", but of those other Christians, the ones that have, and still are, tho professing Christ, abusing Christianity in tandem with self seeking personal power, purpose & prosperity ... The ones that give Christ, and Christianity, a bad name ... The ones that practise abominations, in the name of God, and subsequently bring down upon themselves [color=FF0000](***and the quiet remnant) [/color] God's correcting hand ... After all they seem to be the ones who have left the biggest imprint on the world, one definitely not glorifying to Jesus, and now those lesser people seem to be really reacting negatively to the West - particularly to the U.S. ...

[b]CHRISTIANITY: Abused for Power, Personal Purpose & Prosperity ...[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14398&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go

As a Hamite (Af/Am) saved by grace and from all the historical bitterness i once had against ALL things Japhethic (white folk as i once lumped them), what always stuck out to me before about Western Europeans, the British in particular, and subsequently America, was their amazingly prideful audacity to actually think themselves better than one another and collectively better than the descendants of Shem and Ham, to the point of overtly showing it by really riding rough shod and abusive over such percieved lesser human beings (if seen as human beings at all) as history avows, all in the name of "priveledged lineage", "might makes right", and then (really adding insult to injury) in the name of "Christianity and a God given mandate" ... True the rich and powerful of Europe and America took advantage of all in their path including their own poor, but they seemed to have gone way out of their way in exploiting the lands, natural resources, and peoples of other groups, even to the point of indoctrinating their own peoples with "hey you may be poor, but at least you're white (Japhethic) and not a Jesus killing Jew, or thieving Arab (both Semites), or God forbid at worst a sub-human negro (Hamite) ... i shudder at the thought of how long it took, and what it took, in the U.S. for Bible believeing Christ professing folk of European descent to even allow other folk of percieved lesser linages to even worship/fellowship with them ... Truth be told much of the Body of Christ in the U.S. still has racial division - amongst all the other divisions we still have ...


There's so much in today's news about the demise of the West, and it's waning sphere of influence ... Brits crying about the loss of their nationhood to the EU ... Europeans, and American's of European descent becoming increasingly afraid of the rise of those once lesser people, Arabs and Asians in particular, while Africans (except for African Americans) are still pretty much a docile people on the world scene ... Pat Bucchanan wrote in a recent book that America is in decline because of its lessening of people of Japhethic descent, and it's increase of folk from the lesser people ... i don't think its ever crossed his mind that the problem is moreso rooted in America's hypocritical practices as a professed Christian nation, the bastion of freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, at the expense of the "lesser" people ... There once was a time when American's of Hamitic descent could largely exclude ourselves from such blame, not anymore, because post integration black folk have been on a tear to catch up on every ill the larger society has to offer, and in fact have made a few un-Godly contributions that in retro-spect makes me think we were more spiritually healthy under segregation ...


After bro Jeff's posting from Amos it came to mind how we often speak of "Jacob's Troubles" ...

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. — Jeremiah 30:7

As bro Jeff's postings out of Amos seem so chillingly apropos to Jacob's failings in God's eyes, i think that Jeremiah's future prophecy of Jacob's Trouble will be preceeded by Japheth's Troubles, and for much of the same reasons: lip service to God while at the same time living profane ...


[color=FF0000]*** i put in brackets (the quiet remnant) as a direct jab at any of us who might think ourselves better than other more worldlier saints (the majority that brings down God's correction) because we have not bowed our knee to Baal, but the true question is "why haven't we opened up our mouths in protest for God"? ... As in Elijah's case, how come God knew he had 700 remnant, but the man of God, the rest of the nation, and subsequently Ahab & Jezebel didn't, and therefore Elijah thought himself alone? ... What's the old saying? ... "Silence gives consent" --- [/color]


 2007/9/6 15:15Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: The Time of Japheth's Troubles ...not for the faint of heart indeed...

bro Rahman Greetings in Jesus' Name by WHose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

whatever it was our father Ham did to Noah put us his children in a terrible place...all the same what Satan meant for evil God has determined it for Good!

[b]22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.[/b]

it seems he did more than just look on his father's nakedness since Noah "saw" what he had done. from that point on, Ham had issues...from Ham came Cush and from Cush Nimrod of the Tower of Babel fame...our initital encounter with God as children of Ham was in rebellion, first to Noah as father (well this is really a symptom of rebelling against God) and then the whole issue of the Tower of Babel and what that stood for...that rebellion spilled over throughout the generations and evidences itself even today.

i like you bro Bless God for Jesus Christ by Whose Blood that curse has been broken and under which, before God we are all equal.AMEN.

before our previous discussions on these matters, i would not have considered that the main people furthering the gospel were sons of Japheth. as i remember some of the history i learned about Africa and its conquest by Europe, i see how the Gospel was used for gain and is still so used. i see also however a Judgment on Africa for her iniquities also coming through Japheth and interestingly enough, the Gospel as Redemption. As we have found with those nations/peoples which God uses against others, there is a tendancy to overstep the bounds of Judgment and go overboard. Then those peoples are themselves brought low as i believe is happening to Japheth now. The chickens have come home to roost and we are about to get pushed into one another as believers to an Acts 2 fellowship of community. it seems to me there are some things which God hasn't fully dealt with us about but will do so shortly in what i believe even more firmly is about to hit us here in America. of course this will have repurcussions which will be felt the world over. Much of what we know as America has been built on exploitation of one people or another. Sure the consitution says all men are created equal...yet some of those men owned slaves...they may well have treated them well but that isn't the issue. There is a blueprint on how to handle slaves in the O.T. which was violated in many ways. Then there is the issue of separation of Church and State which allowed men to do as they pleased and not feel like they can be held accountable for ungodliness in conduct as long as progress was made. All the while professing Faith. this is the same thing the Prophets of Israel lamented and preached against all those years. This is the same thing we who are called to this same work now preach against with much the same result. The same spirit which was on Israel in those days is upon the world today hence the guilt of the same sins and the same stubborn refusal to repent and so the result of this will be the same, Judgment.

i have tried to share this with some saints at Church and when i got to the bit of exploitation and Church and state, clearly nobody wanted to hear some young African blaspheme his nation so i was shut up. it seems this jaded view is quite pervasive but in short order, we'll be made to see aright!
On the one hand i look forward to it because the fire will burn off dross (those who profess to be saints but are not) but at the same time, i dread it because we the True Saints will also suffer through it.

so far Shem and Japheth have carried the Gospel. Japheth hasn't made Shem Jealous so as to repent and find Salvation in Jesus; this being because Shem isn't so prone to being deceived by the ruse/sham of Japheth. Shem sees through it and has seen what Japheth has done the world over in the Name of God but for personal gain and growth...this now leaves but 1 son, Ham. being the youngest, nothing much was expected of him. His disrespect for father brought down a terrible curse on him to be slaves unto his brethren which has proven to be true. after all that, who can be a better candidate than Ham to make Shem jealous as to be Saved and Japheth repent also of his abuse of what was given him?i don't think Shem thinks much of Ham...Japeth for sure doesn't...it would be like God to use the base to upset the esteemed and weak to undo the strong and the foolish to upset the wise...Shem wouldn't think Ham capable of carrying the Gospel and Japheth may expect Ham to retaliate for previous injustices but i believe God has broken Ham down such that he knows better and will do better.

this is the bottom of the ninth and Ham is up to bat...Here we go...hope you have your helmet on bro...;-)

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/9/6 21:07Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Time of Japheth's Troubles ...



bro Ironman you wrote;

"whatever it was our father Ham did to Noah put us his children in a terrible place ... it seems he did more than just look on his father's nakedness since Noah "saw" what he had done."


[color=0000CC]--- Actually the scripture says Noah awoke from his wine, and KNEW what his younger son had done unto him ... which by my estimation is exactly what the scripture points to, that he looked upon the compromising position of his Dad and instead of having proper honor for Noah and covering him up in love and respect to not even mention the occurence, he instead went out and put it on full blast as something humorous ... Bad move ... i know there are some who wanna paint Ham as a sexual deviant who may have done something homosexual to his Dad - i personally don't buy that --- [/color]


bro Ironman you wrote;
"from that point on, Ham had issues... i like you bro Bless God for Jesus Christ by Whose Blood that curse has been broken and under which, before God we are all equal. AMEN."

[color=0000CC]--- Amen ... which was touched on the thread; [/color]

[b]Why are the Jews (Shem) Hated by so many Europeans & Russians (Japheth)? ...[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11893&forum=48#94604


bro Ironman you wrote;
"before our previous discussions on these matters, i would not have considered that the main people furthering the gospel were sons of Japheth."

[color=0000CC]---Amen ... history shows it ... the beauty and the horrors --- [/color]


bro Ironman you wrote;
"as i remember some of the history i learned about Africa and its conquest by Europe, i see how the Gospel was used for gain and is still so used. i see also however a Judgment on Africa for her iniquities also coming through Japheth and interestingly enough, the Gospel as Redemption. As we have found with those nations/peoples which God uses against others, there is a tendancy to overstep the bounds of Judgment and go overboard. Then those peoples are themselves brought low as i believe is happening to Japheth now. "


[color=0000CC]--- i seem to have some understanding of what you said when it comes to Him using nations against Israel (the people He attached His name to), but when it comes to His using gentile nations against gentile nations honestly i often come to a loss as to really "why" ... i begin to wonder is it really Him orchestrating such national demises because it's the heathens job to rage, or is it moreso the fact of reaping and sowing, as in if you attack me you'd better wipe me out completely because i'll be living for satanically inspired revenge (you know as ALL ethnic groups seem to do amongst themselves, and outward toward others) ... But what i do suspect, as came to be in much of the case of Japheth, is that when a people/nation attaches His name, and Gospel to themselves then that throws His "correction" factor into it because to claim Christ means that we're claiming to be His, which puts us under His mandates and restrictions, which i think was harder for Japheth because such mandates rule against how one can expand and prosper ... If Christ's golden rule was applied in earnest, much of Japheth's horrible history toward others would have never happened, or at least be greatly minimized ... Faith in Christ is supposed to change us ... As i said before, i don't think God corrects a nation because it's supposedly Christian, but because it's a nation primarily filled with Christians, as i believe in spite of its ugly history was Europe (especially western, and especially Britain), and now America ... Today i believe the majority of Europe has totally abandoned God, Britain is just about at it's last gasps if not breathing so shallow breath can't even be detected, and America tho still perpetrating a form of Godly devotion is Laodicean blind - but i don't think that God is finished with us because we're not really finished with Him - there are more interceeding saints than meet the eye that are howling towards heaven to not let us go as far as Europe has gone ...

One thing i love about being in Christ is that He frees one from being in bondage to all the history, and everyday occurences, of mans inhumanity to man ... From a strictly Christian world view i can spectate on things and see exactly how the devil keeps us at one anothers throats, especially from a racial/ethnic point of view ... i look and i see "the white man" decended from Japheth with the blessing/curse of enlargement and prosperity, "the black man" decended from Ham with a chip on his shoulder to make a shem (name) for himself, "the olive man" decended from Shem (one a chosen people, the other a step-child), "the yellow man" (argued back and forth to either of Shem or Ham), the mixtures that make up "the red man" and "the brown man" ... And what does AD. history show us? ... "The (Catholic) white man" waging Crusade on "the olive man" ... "The (Catholic & Protestant) white man" colonizing, subjugating, exploiting, enslaving, and commiting genocide on all "the other men", and over a period of time one begins to see the history of hatred developing from all "the other men" toward "the white man", and not only of him but also of his Christian religion, this is what i think irratates God to: ENOUGH! ... Tho God's getting fed up sure takes a long time, and is why i know men think Him slow, and also why it's so hard to leave vengence up to Him ... One of the many strange things i find about God is that He seems seldom (especially when it comes to national sins) to vent the vengence on the perps in the time period it done, it's always way down the pike somewhere visited on the ancestors ... Who can figure God's ways? ....

Bottom line tho is Japheth has enjoyed over millenia a priviledged position of dominating the world, and calling the shots over all "the other men" ... That's no longer the case in Western Europe as the EU seems to be only interested in staying viable by the continued making of money, and will do business with anyone they can get away with, especially so being finally discarded of God and Christianity Catholic and Protestant, being convinced it seems that it was religion, and not their own self seeking, that caused their wars ... So i believe it's primarily here in the good ole Christian U.S. that Japheth's (the white mans) time of trouble is really gonna be experienced to the fullest ... Those who have and enjoy the most are the ones who will have the worst experience in the correction, and because of that i do have some concern as to how this will affect so many of our brothers and sisters of Japhethic lineage ... Our leadership, and the majority baby boomers, have not known "dependency" on one another, let alone being reduced to the economic level of the percieved "lessers" in our society ... Our government is in a war in Iraq in attempts of keeping the status quo, but failing ... "The olive man (OPEC) has us by the gas tank and home heating ... Our government is sending emissaries to "the yellow man" (China) in attempts to keep them footing our debt, "the (little crazy) yellow man" in North Korea is giving us grief, "the brown man (Chavez)" is testing U.S. hegemony, our stock market is on the brink, our derivative packages are blowing up, media keeps talking like it's only poor folks losing their homes, and it's only God's extended grace that we've not woken up to "anarchy" in the streets yet ... [/color]


bro Ironman you wrote;
"The chickens have come home to roost and we are about to get pushed into one another as believers to an Acts 2 fellowship of community."

[color=0000CC]--- Amen, i believe this too, which is why i've been asking saints to ask themselves some tough questions now, particularly in light of "the great falling away" ... The bottom line for me has become that if we're anything but Christian first in every aspect of ourselves the "correction" is gonna stress us and strain us way more than necessary, and both race and class will be a factor in the equation ... For instance are you a "black-Christian" or a "Christian who happens to be black"? ... Are you a "white-Christian" or a "Christian who happens to be white"? ... A Jewish Christian? ... etc ... We can ask the same thing regarding any race or class ... We can ask ourselves how we see others, especially within the faith, is it from a Christian perspective or moreso a predjudiced ethnic or social standing position ... What would i do if i suddenly found myself having to depend, share, fellowship, in and out of the faith, with others i've not comfortable in being around in the past ... i know myself how many times i have to remind Af/Am saints about the dangers
of still viewing "other men" thru the eyes of carnal predjudices, and i wonder how many brethren of other races within their own ethnic groups have to do the same ...

i believe to be forced into an Acts 2 fellowship community will be strain enuf for saints of similar ethnicity, let alone a mixing, but i also believe that if we're all of the right heart and spirit set, that of Christ, we could easily transition into no difference between Jew nor Gentile, black nor white, bond nor free, high brow nor low ... but all one in Christ as joint heirs ... i believe the correction will do much in eleminating the dross. removing the spots, and ironing out the wrinkles in the now heavily blemished Church of Jesus Christ --- [/color]


bro Ironman you wrote;
"so far Shem and Japheth have carried the Gospel. Japheth hasn't made Shem Jealous so as to repent and find Salvation in Jesus; this being because Shem isn't so prone to being deceived by the ruse/sham of Japheth. Shem sees through it and has seen what Japheth has done the world over in the Name of God but for personal gain and growth"

[color=0000CC]--- Amen ... again that painful history ... but then too is Romans 11 which knocks things so far out of the ball park regarding the relationship between God and Israel i leave that alone ... But it's obvious that even saved Jews are still reactive to that history --- [/color]


bro Ironman you wrote;
"this now leaves but 1 son, Ham. His disrespect for father brought down a terrible curse on him to be slaves unto his brethren which has proven to be true. after all that, who can be a better candidate than Ham to make Shem jealous as to be Saved and Japheth repent also of his abuse of what was given him? i don't think Shem thinks much of Ham ... Japeth for sure doesn't ... it would be like God to use the base to upset the esteemed and weak to undo the strong and the foolish to upset the wise ... Shem wouldn't think Ham capable of carrying the Gospel and Japheth may expect Ham to retaliate for previous injustices but i believe God has broken Ham down such that he knows better and will do better.

this is the bottom of the ninth and Ham is up to bat ... Here we go ... hope you have your helmet on bro..."


[color=0000CC]--- First in clarrification, the curse of slavery was on Canaan and his seed, not that of Ham ... The same reasoning was used by some Christian slave traders to justify the slave trade ...

Amen it would be like God to use the base ... You know in our talks prior regarding the Hamite and a turn at primary stewardship of carrying the Gospel, i told you i'd heard something prophecied to that effect, but if that prophecy be true God has yet to fulfil it - but if He does in fact in these last days give the descendants of Noah's irreverant younger son a turn at bat i pray we carry it a lot cleaner and freer of worldly pursuits ... As i also said, if it be so and God lets me be of any assistance it would be to constantly warn, "When in choice of keeping 70% of anything and giving away 30%, give away the 70%" ... This is something i think i've already failed at, and will rectify as God gives me further chance" ...

But i am at any rate glad to hear of how the Gospel is spreading in Africa (sans that hellified "prosperity" one) ... And while i don't know for sure why "God has broken Ham down" i sure pray that out of it we've become "better and will do better" ... Perhaps this may more apply to Hamites in the mother-land, because we American descendants seem to be totally out of control ...

Whatever God does, to Him be ALL the glory ...


Blessings in Jesus who loves us ALL equally :-D- even when we don't :-o --- [/color]


 2007/9/7 13:28Profile
Shelley_db
Member



Joined: 2007/4/9
Posts: 7
Galveston

 Re:

This is some heavy hitting stuff and I see not a whole lot of people have ventured to join in on this discussion. I just pray that by the grace of God whoever reads this post may have their eyes opened and their ears opened that they may see the truth and hear the truth. It is easy to dismiss these as the rantings of 2 over the top black people but what if it is true. I pray that the Lord soften all our hearts that we may be in alignement with Him and hear what He is saying to us.


_________________
Shelter

 2007/9/7 20:45Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The Time of Japheth's Troubles ...



Sis S you wrote;
"This is some heavy hitting stuff and I see not a whole lot of people have ventured to join in on this discussion. I just pray that by the grace of God whoever reads this post may have their eyes opened and their ears opened that they may see the truth and hear the truth. It is easy to dismiss these as the rantings of 2 over the top black people but what if it is true. I pray that the Lord soften all our hearts that we may be in alignement with Him and hear what He is saying to us."


--- Amen, and with the addition of your comment it could now be seen "as the rantings of 3 over the top black people" ... :-P

But all joking aside let me again state, i praise God that He has saved me, and freed me, from being "black" first to "Christian" first in every outlook/world view ... Let me also say that i don't think (at least i pray not) that those on SI who read this thread dismiss it as the rantings of an over the top black man (i've made clear my motivation) ...

Race, class, and how they affect us all, even after salvation, are subjects not broached by many in the Body ... There are no discussions on the whys, wherefores, and how has mankind become as it has toward one another ... Why does one group perhaps feel superior, and others perhaps inferior? ... Why has one group expanded, and prospered all over the world, at the expense of other groups? ... What has been the effect on us personally as members of specific races, and classes, prior to salvation, and has Christ indwelling changed us in ways for the better, or are we still overtly and/or covertly operating out of our old nature in these areas, instead of the new? ... The world may be content to go on in business as usual regarding the racial and class baggage we may have been ethnically and socio-economically born into, but we as Christians can not afford to continue therein ...

i'm finding that most of the directions of insights our Lord takes me in puts me at odds with most folk, saved and unsaved, but it's the saved that He has me at most primary concern ... You'd be surprised at how many saints (Japhethic and Hamitic primarily) who balk at the fact that i quote Noah's blessing of "enlargement and prosperity" on Japheth and the spiritual import of just what it meant his blessing being corraled by the tents of Shem ... Many saints can't even begin to fathom the importance of the future implications of ...

[b]Gen.9[/b]
[24] And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
[25] And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
[26] And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
[27] God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

((( As a side note: Gen. 9:27 blows to smitterens The Nation of Islam's tenet that the reason 'the white man" has everything is because he's a blue eyed devil ... According to scripture the devil ain't got nothing to do with Japheth's enlargement ... It's a point that really irks them, if you can get a word in edge-wise)))

i personally believe that this scripture set the tone of the continuation of the history of mankind after the Flood, that Shem and his lineage would become the God (and His mandates) carrying people, that Japheth would become the people who'd eventually spread out and prosper everywhere, but also with the burr in his saddle knowledge that his blessing was to be excercised in the confines of Godly mandates, and that Ham, Noah's youngest son, with the irreverant attitude and chip on his shoulder particularly after the cursing of his son Canaan to slavery, would be father of the line which birthed Nimrod, the first man to decide to become a mighty one in the earth against God, to the point of gathering together people to make a name (shem) of his own, and build the tower of Babel as a personal affront to God ... i believe that if Gen. 9: 24-27 wasn't important then, and now, God wouldn't have written it down for us to read ...

i believe that even after millenia there are things from Noah's decree that still affect us as people & nations today, and the only sure way of properly handling these blessings, and escaping the curses, is to accept the Lord Jesus Christ and His way, which could in potential continue the blessing of Shem's descendants out of the OT into the NT, the blessing of Japheth's descendants into proper alignment within the tent (the stewardship laws) of Jesus Christ, and the ridding of Ham's descendants from whatever the still apparent curses manifested in the horrors of Africa ...

Now of the three lineages, after the acceptance of Christ, i do believe He is showing me that the descendants of Japheth have done more to spread, but also hinder (especially now in our day and time), the name of Christ, and His TRUE Gospel ... The reason being the "at odds with one another" that comes into play with attempting to balance "the pursuit of profane expansion and perpetual prosperity" as we do here in America with "the profound constraints of Jesus and His teachings" ... i believe this to be a special dilema for the descendants of Japheth, in times past especially those of Western European descent, specifically the English, and subsequently the greatest propspering nation of all time America herself ... While Christ was/is embraced, His ways, laws and mandates, especially His golden rule, has been bent, stretched, warped, and broken in pursuit of material expansion, and so much so in the U.S. that our un-Godliness in "greed" has already infected, and is about to disatrously affect, the entire planet ary economy...

Out of what people/nation came forth the hellified "prosperity gospel"? ... Out of what people/nation came the bright idea to marry the profound Messianic theme with the profane American dream? ... Out of waht people/nation could such "another gospel" even be concieved, swallowed, packaged, and then sold for consumption to the Body globally? ... The answer: Japheth & America ... And Hamites in America, tho getting involved later in the game, seem to have fallen hard for it, hook, line and sinker ... We got Creflo, Eddie Long, Jakes, other less known desoerate scramblers, and just this morning i ran across K.C. Price attempting to scripturally justify his being able to chose between his all paid for Benz and two Bentleys as to which one he'd drive, to an array of amens from a jam packed mega-church audience ... Then on to my own pastor this morning continuing his theme of "This Is Our Year", with references to benefit of blessings from God material and health ... i remember just 30 years ago when the flamboyant money centered Hamite Rev. Ike was ridiculed by the black clergy in America, now most are carbon copies tho with a smoother Christ laced message of get that dollar ... It's amazing to me how many of "the other men", saved and unsaved alike, profess such a disdain and hatred for America and "the white man", when in essence i see it more a jealousy of not having, or being able to attain, what "the white man" particularly in America has, for as soon as the "haters" get the chance, they go whole hog for the very things they say they hate ... That's why i say that if in fact God will give the decendants of Ham an opportunity to carry the Gospel, especially in provoking the Jew to jealousy, they'd have to be from Africa itself, because Hamites in the U.S. may yet still be able to be identified as such by skin color, but the mindset and treasure of the heart is in envy and attainment of Japheth's blessing-not Christ's ... Thus the urban call and response: How you livin? ... I'm livin large!

America sets the standard, carnally and spiritually ... and the world follows ... In America we are at the time of Japheth's Troubles (thus the troubles for all the other minorities too-including the silent remnant), and who amongst God's people here as Christians first, regardless of what race, creed, color or class, will point out to one another the errors of our ways, and why we now find ourselves in His correction ... Yeah its a hard thing to do, and not popular at all - but somebody's got to point out error toward our repentance and restoration ---

 2007/9/9 14:37Profile









 Re:

I have a question to pose that I've had since I was a kid.
Actually it's a theory that I've held since then, that I'd like to pose to you men as a question.

My theory has always been that the slaves in the south, that got saved and knew Christ - knew Him out of and in desperate times of persecution.
No matter what race a people may be, during persecution or hardships, whether Chinese, Indian, Malaysian, whatever - they come out as 'more on fire' Christians.
There's nothing like hardships and mistreatment that bring out the best in Christians.

Well, my theory has been, the "Bible Belt" has been what it is called, because of the Black Christians who suffered there.

So does anyone have any good history books to prove or disprove my theory ?

 2007/9/9 16:36
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 The Bible Belt ...



HE_Reigns you wrote;
"My theory has always been that the slaves in the south, that got saved and knew Christ - knew Him out of and in desperate times of persecution. No matter what race a people may be, during persecution or hardships, whether Chinese, Indian, Malaysian, whatever - they come out as 'more on fire' Christians. There's nothing like hardships and mistreatment that bring out the best in Christians.

Well, my theory has been, the "Bible Belt" has been what it is called, because of the Black Christians who suffered there. So does anyone have any good history books to prove or disprove my theory?"


--- i knew the term "Bible Belt" refered to the South, but i've never suspected it to be linked to Negroes since the majority of America's history links nothing of any importance to Negro contribution, and it was a while before i new American Negroes had done anything in the U.S. other than play bafoons, servants, and natives in Tarzan movies ...

Anyhow i did some checking on the Bible Belt and found out that the term was actually coined in 1920, at a time having nothing to do with the faith of the Af-Am's, but all to do with the faith of whites in the cruely segregated south, tho today it may include Af/Am saints ...

[b]THE BIBLE BELT[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Belt

i'm glad you brought up the point tho because it was the Bible Belts white Christians (not all but way to many) we see in the news footage of the Civil Rights era giving black people (most of them Christians), pure-t-hell ... Again claiming Christ, but surely not acting like Him ... i was always amazed that the KKK concidered itself a good Christian orginization, and it's members good saints who terrified people to keep them scared into keeping "their place" ... And actually the North was only slightly better, their discrimination more covertly psychological ... When i reflect on those times i can only imagine the real white saints back then were the abolitionist, and the ones that spoke up and told their fellow Church folk, and the greater society that what was going on in this country, in the name of God, was straight up wrong ... i bet a lot of white Christians during that time would liked to have spoken against the evil, but fear in one way or the other kept them silent ... Then their were those believers like Washington and Jefferson who knew that slavery was wrong, but neccessary to the American economy so that they could be free from the tyranny of England ...

You mentioned the hardship of slavery bringing the black man to Jesus, and actually clinging to Him really ... To this day i still don't understand how it was at all possible for any enslaved Hamite in America to ever accept the same Jesus Christ of their wicked masters as their own personal Savior ... i find it hard to believe that i could have (Nat Turner used to be my hero), and think it must have had a whole lot to do with the pre-destination and calling of Romans 9 - but what a way to have to get to Christ ... Why, only God knows and i leave that up to Him, thankful that i wasn't born in 1750, or 1850, but am glad that somehow my ancestors latched onto Jesus, and opened up a way where it was easier for me to do also ... One of many things that really concern me about the Body of Christ in America, now that we're all in the 21st century, is why even amongst saints more learned today, there's still much suspicion, separation, predjudice, and ill feelings racially, less overtly yet still covertly, between saints of different ethnicities, and classes, particularly black and white ...

[color=CC0000]Racial and class predjudice seems to come so easy ... i believe it's based in that same satanic delusion of feeling superior ... As a white Christian how do you really feel about Blacks? ... Why? ... As a Black Christian how do you really feel about Whites? ... Why? ... As a home grown American Christian how do you feel about the foriegn people who seem to be popping up everywhere these days ... Does it irk you? ... Why? ... Does it make you feel threatened? ... Why? ... Do you wish you could pack up the lot of them and send them all back where they came from? ... Why? ... [/color] i know of myself my living in an area being completely overtaken by Asians, i sometimes have to check myself in my reaction as an American of getting tired of hearing them speak in languages i don't understand, or smelling foods so exotic to my nose that i don't like it, but i've had a few occasions of meeting some of my Asian neighbors and finding out they're Christians, and it instantly changes my whole outlook to love, instead of disdain, or irateness ... [color=CC0000]i think that once we become Christians, and understand the Word, and are filled with the love/Spirit of Christ we are supposed to become changed and should not only have such love for our brethren no matter what color or class, but the same for all our fellowmen ...[/color] i certainly am not perfect in this, but i believe Holy Spirit makes me aware to the point of repentance when i find myself lowering the status of my fellowman for whatever the reason ... When we as God's children don't check ourselves, it may take Him a long time but eventually He'll check us Himself, and usually by the time He does folk of today seem to have to pay for ugly things done by folk long dead ... That's another thing that baffles the smack out of me about God ...

Tho i'm one prone to wonder i praise Him that He's long since cured me of my having to understand His ways to remain faithful ... What i don't know i don't know, but what i do know is i'm susposed to strive toward the mark of the higher calling everyday, the attaining of which seems so hard on us, but He calls it our reasonable service ...

Blessings in He who gives His willing servants the ability to walk on waters we once were drowning in ---

 2007/9/10 9:21Profile









 Re: Keep lookin' up.

Thank you Rahman. I took your site and went into a bit more investigating and Hey - I still hold to my theory. :-p

BTW - I was just News hopping again and picked these two up.

Time will tell what's up with these moves ---

[b]Local Troops Deploy To Nation's Capital[/b]

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Members of the 1st Battalion 265 Air Defense Artillery have mobilized and are on a plane headed first to Ft. Bliss, then for federal active duty in the capital region.

The troops will be deployed for a year.

"It's going to be all right It's OK if he helps people and everything, and it's his job. He’s got to do it. He just got to do it," Jessica Ward said, whose father is being deployed. Jessica speaks for many when she talks about her father's deployment.

Michael Ward and company are leaving for a year, and that weighs heavy on families.

The 265th is part of Operation Noble Eagle.

They are ordered by the president to the nation's capital, where they will operate high-tech weapons systems against any potential air threat.

Yolanda McCormack is relieved husband Charles isn't headed to Iraq, but there is always a risk.

"Doesn't mean he won't be in the line of fire in Washington, D.C., but it does give me a little comfort," Yolanda McCormack said, whose husband is being deployed.

Families may get one or two opportunities to see loved ones during this year-long deployment, but it’s not encouraged. Though the solders are staying in the states, they are on serious business.

Staff Sgt. James Todd said duty at home is just as important as the mission overseas.
________________________________________

[b]Air Force Times
ACC orders commandwide standdown Friday[/b]


By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Sep 10, 2007 5:59:34 EDT
On Sept. 14, flight lines will be very quiet at Air Combat Command bases.

The entire command — about 100,000 active-duty airmen — is standing down training flights and many other operations as part of a command-wide safety day.

Command boss Gen. Ronald Keys ordered the Sept. 14 safety standdown in the wake of the Aug. 30 nuclear incident at Minot Air Force Base, N.D., in which six cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads were loaded onto a B-52H and then flown to Barksdale Air Force Base, La., without anyone on the ground or bomber realizing the nuclear weapons were on the plane. It was not until the B-52H was parked at Barksdale that ground crews discovered the cruise missiles were carrying real warheads.

Command spokesman Maj. Tom Crosson said wing commanders would determine how their units review operations and safety procedures and checklists.

Just how serious Keys takes the lapse of regulations at Minot is reflected in the fact that the safety stand-down is the first commandwide safety day in recent memory. In the past, the command has singled out specific types of aircraft for safety days and in 1997 the Department of Defense held a departmentwide safety review day.
http://www.trunews.com/headlines.htm

 2007/9/10 17:50









 Re:

Brothers, I had the reply window open when I heard, "Hurry - supper's ready." So I just threw up what I had copied and pasted above.
I'd like to address what you've posted Brother Rahman.
We all come from Adam. The Scientists figured that out when they cracked the genome code.
Wasn't that smart of them ?
How would we have ever known ?
:-D

 2007/9/10 23:53
Shelley_db
Member



Joined: 2007/4/9
Posts: 7
Galveston

 Re:

True and even when I was six I knew the theory of evolution was wrong... I would think to myself, "If we are the evolved ones where are the half done ones?"


_________________
Shelter

 2007/9/12 18:57Profile





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