you are talking about "baptism" of the spirit right?
right.. or as I would use the phrase 'Baptism in the Spirit'.
have spent much time meditating on thease things, but do you see that the baptism, filling , whatever name one can call it, cant be two entirely separate events?
I think this is where the word 'event' needs to be carefully considered. We might speak of the Incarnation event but would not be thinking only of Bethlehem. If these things happened on the same day separated by a couple of hours would we think it was one event or two? If separated by a few weeks would we still think of it as one event. I think we tend to think of an 'event' as a single hour event, but I think the 'unit' of an event can be much longer.
Peter defended his entrance into Cornelius' home by saying...
But Peter explained it to them in order from the beginning, saying: And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. (Acts 11:4, 15 NKJV)
When he said 'the beginning' was he just thinking about the moment when the Spirit came and they spoke with tongues or was 'the beginning' a wider term? The 'event' of our redemption has several distinguishable moments in it, and I think full initiation into Christ may have several distinguishable moments in it too.
Here is a very simplistic illustration. Gen 2 tells us that there was one river in Eden which split into 4 heads. I can imagine a possible geography where to cross from East to West would necessitate a single crossing, but I can imagine geographies which would have necessitated 2, 3 or 4 separate crossings to get from East to West. A man's pilgrimage will be unique but he will know when he has crossed from East to West.
For me the initial evidence of the Spirit's coming is...
[color=0033FF]The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (Romans 8:16 NKJV)[/color]
but when I use this language I am not talking about being counselled for 'assurance'. I think counselling for 'assurance' is the ultimate impertinance.
I want to be filled with the spirit, walk in the spirit , live by the spirit. I am not sure they are describing the same thing, i am not sure they are one single event taking place after salvation, or if we can get it at the same time.
Try to seek the Lord and his presence without predetermined stereotypes of what might happen, and hold on until you know he has answered your heart's desire. From there there will be growth and increasing fulness and subsequent fillings. This is the event which opens the way to the process.
| 2007/9/4 4:26||Profile|
Paul spoke this way as an exhortation to the Church at Phillipi...
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
I heard an old preacher once say that some preach about the Spirit once, some preach about the Spirit twice, but he has experienced an ongoing work of the Spirit filling him for the work that he is called to do.
This seems to be what Paul is calling us to look for in this life. Events creates the substance of what is hoped for. The process is the evidence of the things not seen.
| 2007/9/4 5:16||Profile|
in the book of acts chapter 5:32 I believe. off the top of my head here.
it says, we are witnesses of these things and so is the holy spirit whom is given to those who obey him.
I have seen people come up for a filling of the holy spirit, at the alter. obviously they are seeking something more than salvation but some empowerment, for service, giftings or what not.
I personally believe that God wants to give people more of his spirit for works of service, but quite a few will leave the alter and it seems that nothing happened, but what is probably happening is they are being dealt with by the lord and when they finally agree with him about something in their life, then it happens for them, and giving the appearance they opened their gift later on. but actually God was dealing with them the whole time.
That is why some people get the whole thing at conversion and others seem to get a second blessing, they may have some dealings with the lord to attend to.
I could be wrong, and may not stand up scripturally, we do tend to let experiences sway our interpertation of things.
My two cents.
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A man's pilgrimage will be unique but he will know when he has crossed from East to West.
Try to seek the Lord and his presence without predetermined stereotypes of what might happen
i think this is a trap for many, they search for something special. I want what those people in the book of Acts had. I want what peter got from denying the Lord to preaching at Pentecost. However God may manifest it, i believe we will know in the same way we know we are saved.
hold on until you know he has answered your heart's desire. From there there will be growth and increasing fulness and subsequent fillings. This is the event which opens the way to the process.
thank you for that advice.
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The 'event' of our redemption has several distinguishable moments in it, and I think full initiation into Christ may have several distinguishable moments in it too.
Can you go through these 'moments' to supplement your article on receiving Christ?
Robert Wurtz II
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I want what Peter got from preaching at Pentecost to 1 Peter 1:23.
I want what Paul Got from the Road, being knocked down, yelled at by Christ from Heaven in Person, being blinded, unto all His epistles, preaching only Christ and Him Crucified. Becoming the greatest advocate of Christ our Savior being birthed in us and us having a new life in Christ Jesus. 224 times in all his epistles he preaches Christ in you, and us in Christ.
This is the epitome of Jesus Christ being born again in us. New creatures in Christ, a new creation nation of Christ-ones, son's of God only completed in Christ. That is realness of This Christ in us, not just a bible verse that has no reality and no understanding of its true realness. "That is Christ in you the Hope of Glory".
Real truth: Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Even more, us becoming perfect: Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Also One with the Father, and Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit forever, bringing us to this great revelation of Christ in you.
By our position what we are to be doing:
Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
He in us is already our only Hope of Glory, let us seek Him, which is the Kingdom of God in Heavenly Places not on this earth. We are heavenly beings already, just Christ Ones Passing through.
John 8:22-24 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
In Him, we are all that He is: Ephesians 2:2-10 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In Christ: Phillip
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