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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Christ in you; event or process...Both

Quote:
Christ enters the heart of the man whom God has called because of the Mercy of the Father.



My question is still "how?" and "at what event?"


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Ron Bailey

 2007/9/2 4:34Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Ron by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN. (EDIT)

Greetings in Jesus' Name bro Ron by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

you said:

Quote:
My question is still "how?" and "at what event?"



the "how" is by His Mercy because apart from that, no man may know he needs Salvation and that realization is necessary. The "what event" is at the time when God thought to create. in that Same moment, Christ was slain for the redemption of creation.

Now that was in eternity somewhere but on this side what happens is a realization in the physical of what GOd had Decreed in eternity. The realization of this is in a man confessing his sin, repenting and then thereafter receiving Holy Ghost as Peter said in Acts 2.

so in short the how is by the Mercy of God which was shown before creation which allows a man to confess his sin and repent. the when is somewhere in eternity but yet somewhere in the physical when a man in response to the Mercy of God cries out to Him.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

Acts 2
Acts 2
Acts 2

it's in Acts 2 bro


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Farai Bamu

 2007/9/2 10:18Profile









 Re: Christ in you; event or process

Here's my story:
All my life I did what I wanted. Many not nice things also.
My life was a mess. I tried, but I couldn't help myself be good.
At 49 years I was being sucked downwards. Nearly in the gutter.
Despair, blackness, gloom, fear. I reached the end.
I called the church. They took me in.
God placed a man of God at my side, to read me the bible and pray for me.
I took instruction. I got baptized. My life still a mess.
Still felt alone. Sad. But stayed with the church.
4 years later, another man of God prayed silently beside me.
I prayed silently to God also. Please come. Bring your Spirit to edify me.

Then, suddenly, God came! All of heaven came down on me. Language coming forth from me
that was beautiful. This I did not want to stop.

Next. Confidence. Boldness. Testimony of Jesus. Knowing the Father.
Speaking Jesus in the front of the church. This is not me. This is the new me!

Thank you Jesus for coming. Thank you for enabling me. I trust you now completely
with my life. No matter what happens. I long to be with you. Please come back soon!

It is now 9 years after the event. This was a process. Then an event. The process continues.

Jalim

 2007/9/2 10:45
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
the "how" is by His Mercy because apart from that, no man may know he needs Salvation and that realization is necessary. The "what event" is at the time when God thought to create. in that Same moment, Christ was slain for the redemption of creation.

Now that was in eternity somewhere but on this side what happens is a realization in the physical of what GOd had Decreed in eternity. The realization of this is in a man confessing his sin, repenting and then thereafter receiving Holy Ghost as Peter said in Acts 2.


So you are saying that Christ entered them at the event of Acts 2 in the coming of the Holy Spirit? In other words, that Christ indwells a man or a woman only by receiving the Spirit?

I believe that this a legitimate view but the vast majority of evangelical Christians do not believe this. They believe that Christ begins his indwelling as the result of a prayer and that the Holy Spirit indwells at the same time. This is why we have the emphasis on 'asking Christ into your heart' which is nowhere suggested in the scripture... so far as I am aware.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/9/2 12:55Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Thanks Jalim.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/9/2 12:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
the "how" is by His Mercy because apart from that, no man may know he needs Salvation and that realization is necessary. The "what event" is at the time when God thought to create. in that Same moment, Christ was slain for the redemption of creation.

Now that was in eternity somewhere but on this side what happens is a realization in the physical of what GOd had Decreed in eternity. The realization of this is in a man confessing his sin, repenting and then thereafter receiving Holy Ghost as Peter said in Acts 2.


So you are saying that Christ entered them at the event of Acts 2 in the coming of the Holy Spirit? In other words, that Christ indwells a man or a woman only by receiving the Spirit?

I believe that this a legitimate view but the vast majority of evangelical Christians do not believe this. They believe that Christ begins his indwelling as the result of a prayer and that the Holy Spirit indwells at the same time. This is why we have the emphasis on 'asking Christ into your heart' which is nowhere suggested in the scripture... so far as I am aware.



But the truth is that He entered man in John 20.22, the first new birth experiences recorded in scripture.

There are three , only three manifestations, of the Holy Spirt. John 20.22 is the second one.... and that one is NOT the promise of the Father.

 2007/9/2 13:01
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:

But the truth is that He entered man in John 20.22, the first new birth experiences recorded in scripture.

There are three , only three manifestations, of the Holy Spirt. John 20.22 is the second one.... and that one is NOT the promise of the Father.


I seem to recall we have had this conversation before. In John 20:22 he was actually standing with them in his resurrection body. To be 'with' them was his earthly means of fellowship and communication. He could not possibly have been 'in them' until he had ascended to the throne.

The John 14-16 themes of the Spirit necessitate his 'having gone away'. The themes of 'with' moving to 'in' are all part of his promise to send the Spirit, he having left them. This does not equate to John 20:22. John 20:22 was a unique commissioning of his apostles and not the moment of his indwelling.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/9/3 2:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:

But the truth is that He entered man in John 20.22, the first new birth experiences recorded in scripture.

There are three , only three manifestations, of the Holy Spirt. John 20.22 is the second one.... and that one is NOT the promise of the Father.


I seem to recall we have had this conversation before. In John 20:22 he was actually standing with them in his resurrection body. To be 'with' them was his earthly means of fellowship and communication. He could not possibly have been 'in them' until he had ascended to the throne.



True, and this is that event:

[i]"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, [b][u]I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;[/u][/b] and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her."[/i] John 20:17-18 (KJV)

And then we see this happening to them [b]after[/b] His return:

[i]"And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost"[/i] John 20:22 (KJV)

Is this not so?

Quote:
The John 14-16 themes of the Spirit necessitate his 'having gone away'. The themes of 'with' moving to 'in' are all part of his promise to send the Spirit, he having left them.



For the "Promise of the Father to come? No question about that. However, this is the Promise of the Father spoken to them after John 20.22 while they were having a fish-fry one morning:

[i]"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father [b][u]upon[/u][/b] you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high'.[/i] Luke 24:49 (KJV)

And more precisely when He would come to them:

"[i]Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, [b]commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, [u]but wait for the promise of the Father[/u], which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."[/b][/i] Acts 1:2-5 (KJV)

Quote:
This does not equate to John 20:22. John 20:22 was a unique commissioning of his apostles and not the moment of his indwelling.



Indeed, that scripture references I submitted don't equate with John 20.22 since [b]this was their baptism INTO His Body[/b]; which was their indwelling experience. As any "objective" reader of the scripture can see, the Promise of the Father is WELL after John 20.22; "I in them and them in Me..." per John 17.

It can be rightly exegeted that while the Holy Ghost baptises one into the Body of Christ, it is Jesus Christ who Baptizes that one into the Holy Ghost. John said of Jesus: "He will baptise you with the Holy Ghost and Fire". Can you think of anytime when Jesus did this while "with" them, before the Cross? How about when, in John 20.22 when "indwelt" them? Was that a baptism He perfromed? Surely the Disciples knew what to expect if it was. At least they maybe would get wet? No, something always happens when one gets baptised. They spoke of nothing and no one observed any difference in them on the street until Acts 2. And when was their great evangelistic prowess to be seen after John 20.22? No Phil, none of John 20.22 was the Baptism into the Holy Ghost; the "coming upon" unction to function.

 2007/9/3 7:16









 Re:

Quote:
I'm not sure that you have seen my point yet. My point is that in the New Testament people received Christ by receiving the Spirit, they did not receive the Spirit as a consequence of 'receiving Christ' in the modern evangelical sense of that phrase.



You better watch it Philologos, they might start calling you a Calvinist. Though I would not consider myself a Calvinist, I happent to believe you are correct, and the testimony of Lazarus, proves your point.

Lazarus was dead and corrupt in his grave. He had no ability to believe Jesus, and even if he wanted to pray a prayer he, of course, could not.
He was raised from the dead (born-again) by the Living Word of God. Jesus called his name and He came to life.

Quote:
1Peter1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.



The same with us. We were dead in our sins and trespasses. The Spirit of God came to us, by way of the Word of God, and raised us to life.

 2007/9/3 8:45
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

just a short comment by A.B Simpson

I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

It is a blessed moment when we are born again and a new heart is created in us after the image of God. It is a more blessed moment when, in this new heart, Christ Himself is born and Christmas time is reproduced in us as we, in some real sense, become incarnations of the living Christ. This is the deepest and holiest meaning of Christianity. It is expressed in Paul's prayer for the Galatians. My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you. There will yet be a more glorious era when we, like Him, shall be transformed and transfigured into His glory, and in the resurrection shall be, in spirit, soul and body, even as He. Let us be, under the power of the inspiring thought, incarnations of Christ, not living our life, but the Christ life, and showing forth the excellencies, not of ourselves, but of Him who hath called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. As a result our lives shall be to all the reliving of the Christ life, as He would have lived it had He been here.


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/9/3 11:16Profile





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