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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Christ in you; event or process

Let me start this slowly.
The thoughts returned just this morning whilst reading Galatians.
Part of our evangelical culture is the notion of 'inviting Christ into your heart'. When evangelising younger folk we tend to talk in terms of 'giving your heart to Jesus'.

Now, if you haven't thought about this the next statement will sound almost heretical, but the language of 'inviting Christ into the heart' or 'giving the heart to Christ' is not a biblical concept. We all know what we mean by the phrases but sometimes we have to examine the language we use to see if it is not confusing us.

There are two particular references which we may have in mind when we use this language.

[color=0066FF]My little children, for whom I labor in birth again [u]until Christ is formed in you[/u], (Galatians 4:19 NKJV)

For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, [u]that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith[/u]; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:14-19 NKJV)[/color]

What is interesting in these two quotations is that in each instance ‘Christ within’ is a consequence of an earlier event. In Galatians Paul is saying that he believes that ‘Christ’ is not yet formed in those who have abandoned him for another gospel. In Ephesians Paul is saying (or praying) that the purpose of having the Spirit in the ‘inner man’ is ‘in order that’ Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. Paul is not thinking about Christ entering the heart at an initial crisis but that the state of ‘Christ in the heart’ is the consequence of an ongoing process.

For Paul ‘Christ in You’ is not a theological statement but a description of a man’s life. He does not say ‘Christ is in you, therefore…’ Christ in you, is not his starting point. The Galatians had evidenced that something was lacking. Paul sets himself to pray until Christ is formed within them. This hardly fits with the way we evangelicals have handled the ‘Christ in you’ theme.

Christ does not live in the heart by faith as a result of someone praying the sinner’s prayer but as a result of the constant inworking of the Spirit. Christ dwells in the heart as a result of the Spirit indwelling the inner man. We use the phrase ‘if you have Christ you have the Spirit’, but the New Testament emphasis seems to be somewhat different, more on the lines of ‘if you have the Spirit Christ dwells in you’.

[color=0066FF]But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Romans 8:9 NKJV)[/color]

During his earthly ministry Christ was with them and not in them. He interpreted this in terms of the Spirit in John 14

[color=0066FF] “If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for [u]He dwells with you and will be in you[/u]. (John 14:15-17 NKJV)[/color]

In this passage of scripture he switches easily from “He will come” to “I will come”. It seems that Christ ‘comes’ when the Spirit comes. It would seem a logical impossibility to think of ‘Christ in them’ while Christ was still with them. If this is so there was clearly something decisively different about their experience when Christ ascended and sent the Spirit. Surely this indwelling Spirit is the means whereby Christ dwells in us and is formed in us. If Christ is at the Father's right hand how else will be get to be 'in us' other than by his indwelling Spirit?

It squares much more firmly with Paul's question at Ephesus which was not 'have you received Christ?' but 'have you received the Spirit?'

...as Robert W sometimes says... "I'll go and get my helmet" :-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/9/1 9:27Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Christ in you; event or process

God is Spirit. We must be born of the Spirit,
be filled with the Spirit, be led of the Spirit,
and walk in the Spirit. The Spirit abides and
dwells within and reveals Christ in you;
the hope of glory!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2007/9/1 9:57Profile









 Re: Christ in you; event or process

event or process? BOTH
If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, they are lost. We get HIS spirit at the new spiritual birth. We can grow in the spirit, as we grow in the knowledge of who HE is and what HIS will is. If we have received HIS Spirit, we are saved, we are being saved, and eventually we will be saved in heaven. Those HE call He also justifies, He sanctifies, He and glorifies. He that began a good work in us is able to complete it.

 2007/9/1 11:25









 Re: Christ in you; event or process

Good stuff, Ron B. Solid.

I would like you to relate the coming upon of the Spirit, the third and last manifestation of the Holy Ghost to what you have so apply presented; Jesus, of course, being the Baptizer, as John declared.

 2007/9/1 11:37
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, they are lost.



I'm going to be a little provocative. Just some FYI, I don't have all this sorted out.

Two questions.

1) What do you mean "lost?"

2) When were the below people justified and when did they "receive the Spirit"? Can you be justified and not have the Spirit?

Act 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.



Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/9/1 11:55Profile









 Re:

Quote:

PreachParsly wrote:
Quote:
If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, they are lost.



I'm going to be a little provocative. Just some FYI, I don't have all this sorted out.

Two questions.

1) What do you mean "lost?"

2) When were the below people justified and when did they "receive the Spirit"? Can you be justified and not have the Spirit?

Act 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.



Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.




Question #1 what is lost? without hope=unsaved=going to hell, separated from God, deserving of eternal punishment for rejecting the free gift of the SON.

Question #2 When were they justified? When they accepted the free gift and were saved, they are justified by HIS blood and if they are justfied by HIS blood they are saved.

question # 3 When did they receive the spirit?When they confessed and accepted HIM as both Lord and savior and also acknowledging HIM as Lord and received HIS SPIRIT and became a new creation.

question # 4 One can be justified and still at times quench the spirit, be disobedient, and be walk in the flesh and not walk in the spirit , but they are still justified.

They good news is if one is lost, they can be saved and justified, when they are convicted of their sinfulness and HIS holiness and if they will but call on the name of the Lord, repent and ask HIM to be endwelt with HIS Spirit, then they can be therefore justified before the Father by the Son. When they are justified, when the Father looks at them, their sins are covered by the blood of Jesus and the Father can no longer see their sins and they can be in fellowship with the Father.

Eph 2:12-15
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 [b]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ[/b].
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16[b] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:[/b]
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18[b] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.[/b]
KJV

The only thing that was provocative in your questions were that you provoked me to give God's Word and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. Thank you for the opportunity, PreachParsly.

 2007/9/1 12:33
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I would like you to relate the coming upon of the Spirit, the third and last manifestation of the Holy Ghost to what you have so apply presented; Jesus, of course, being the Baptizer, as John declared.



I think you are going to have to explain that to me. What is the third and what are the first and second manifestations of the Spirit?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/9/1 16:13Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
We get HIS spirit at the new spiritual birth.



Is this right? or do we receive new birth when we receive his life? and how do we receive the life of him who is at the Father's right hand unless it is by receiving His Spirit?

This is the question I am posing. We speak so frequently of 'receiving Christ' but what biblical basis do we have for believing that a person 'receives Christ' because they pray a pattern prayer?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/9/1 16:16Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
God is Spirit. We must be born of the Spirit,
be filled with the Spirit, be led of the Spirit,
and walk in the Spirit. The Spirit abides and
dwells within and reveals Christ in you;
the hope of glory!!



All this is true but none of it answers my original questions. My question is 'how does Christ get to be within?' The usual evangelical answer is by praying a prayer. I don't think that squares with the New Testament. The New Testament says Christ gets to be within as a result of the inward working of His Spirit. Consequently we can only receive Christ by receiving His Spirit.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/9/1 16:19Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
Quote:
We get HIS spirit at the new spiritual birth.



Is this right? or do we receive new birth when we receive his life? and how do we receive the life of him who is at the Father's right hand unless it is by receiving His Spirit?

This is the question I am posing. We speak so frequently of 'receiving Christ' but what biblical basis do we have for believing that a person 'receives Christ' because they pray a pattern prayer?



that is a very good question... i recently listend to a sermon, where tha man said that when he leads someone to Christ it will take about 5 hours. He makes them read 30-50 verses about sin, and asks questions to see if they understand. And then he makes them read as many verses about Jesus and redemption and so on, and then he asks them if they are a child of God, have they been born of the spirit, if they are not sure more scriptures, he said, he never says to anyone that they are saved, God tells us when we are. I found it also interesting that of all the people this man lead to Christ...he said only one had "fallen away"

And i also find the 3 minute call or "bow your heads" and receive Christ moment in churches to be a little superficial and not biblical.... but what would be the most "right" way to lead a person to Jesus?


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/9/1 16:25Profile





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